Forums/Armchair-GM

Evgeni Malkin vs John Tavares

Créé par: MikeyThePensFan
Date de création initiale: nov 10, 2019
Publié: Nov 10, 2019 at 1:46 pm
Équipe: 2019-20 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Explications
A few days ago, we compared prime Evgeni Malkin and Auston Matthews. However, in my opinion, the best player on the Leafs is John Tavares. He's one of the most influential players in the league and is great at driving the play, plus he's reliable at both ends of the ice. His positioning and faceoff work is tremendous and he executes with an effective level of simplicity. He's also got great strength when protecting the puck, highly skilled player. To me, he's a poors-man Sidney Crosby.

Now the real question is, would John Tavares at his best be better than Evgeni Malkin?

Keep in mind Malkin won the Hart, Lindsey, Art Ross, Calder and Conn Smythe. He has 1176 points in 1020 games (1.15 points per game) in both regular season and playoffs. Tavares has 745 points 793 regular season and playoff games (0.94 points per game).

We shall not forget Tavares played on a trash Islanders team for most of his career, so this should be an interesting debate.

Comment your thoughts below!
Enfoui
  • Casey DeSmith: 175 000 $ (1 250 000 $)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2021
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
ANA
2022
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2181 500 000 $57 874 125 $132 500 $3 832 500 $23 625 875 $

Formation

Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
PIT
Guentzel, Jake
6 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 5
PIT
Lafferty, Sam
767 500 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
PIT
Galchenyuk, Alex
4 900 000 $
AG, C, AD
UFA - 1
PIT
McCann, Jared
1 250 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
9 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 3
PIT
Rust, Bryan
3 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 3
PIT
Kahun, Dominik
925 000 $
AG, AD, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Bjugstad, Nick
4 100 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 2
PIT
Simon, Dominik
750 000 $
AD, AG
RFA - 1
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
1 000 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
750 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 2
PIT
Tanev, Brandon
3 500 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 6
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
4 100 000 $
DG
UFA - 4
PIT
Marino, John
925 000 $
D
RFA - 2
PIT
Murray, Matt
3 750 000 $
G
RFA - 1
PIT
Pettersson, Marcus
874 125 $
DG
RFA - 1
PIT
Schultz, Justin
5 500 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 1
PIT
Jarry, Tristan
675 000 $
G
RFA - 1
PIT
Riikola, Juuso
850 000 $
D
RFA - 1
PIT
Ruhwedel, Chad
700 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
PIT
Johnson, Jack
3 250 000 $
DG
UFA - 4
PIT
Hörnqvist, Patric
5 300 000 $
AD
NTC
UFA - 4
PIT
Crosby, Sidney
8 700 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 6
PIT
Letang, Kris
7 250 000 $
DD
NMC NTC
UFA - 3

Unités spéciales

Avantage numérique 1
Guentzel, J.
McCann, J.
Galchenyuk, A.
Schultz, J.
Malkin, E.
Avantage numérique 2
Simon, D.
Bjugstad, N.
Kahun, D.
Dumoulin, B.
Pettersson, M.
Infériorité numérique 1
Aston-Reese, Z.
Rust, B.
Dumoulin, B.
Marino, J.
Infériorité numérique 2
Blueger, T.
Tanev, B.
Pettersson, M.
Ruhwedel, C.

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Who is better at their best?
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10 nov 2019 à 13 h 48
#1
Burgers and Hockey
Rejoint: oct 2017
Messages: 8,627
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Tavares is better now, but Malkin was better at his prime.
aedoran et LumberJacques a aimé ceci.
10 nov 2019 à 13 h 50
#2
Rejoint: déc 2017
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Quoting: BurgerBoss
Tavares is better now, but Malkin was better at his prime.


Well said and I agree.
BurgerBoss a aimé ceci.
10 nov 2019 à 13 h 57
#3
Démarrer sujet
Mikey F.
Rejoint: sep 2019
Messages: 1,397
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Quoting: aedoran
Well said and I agree.


Quoting: BurgerBoss
Tavares is better now, but Malkin was better at his prime.


I am a big admirer of Tavares and I would put him ahead of most centers but Geno in his prime was a monster.

I hope you can check out and subscribe to my YouTube channels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OblZhVrQ0dI
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS9Xo-oYHIhhBjNlGCkGULA

Thanks!
BurgerBoss et aedoran a aimé ceci.
10 nov 2019 à 15 h 33
#4
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 3,957
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if you could get engaged malkin every night hed still be better, id rather Tavares now
10 nov 2019 à 15 h 34
#5
Komarov>Tavares
Rejoint: oct 2016
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Tavares has a lot of trophies so I think its him


wait
10 nov 2019 à 15 h 46
#6
Rejoint: déc 2018
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Tavares now, Malkin career
10 nov 2019 à 16 h 18
#7
Rejoint: jun 2018
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I'm not even going to read this nonsense. Malkin by a country mile.
TopLineTom43 et Pens3lieve a aimé ceci.
10 nov 2019 à 17 h 58
#8
Démarrer sujet
Mikey F.
Rejoint: sep 2019
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Quoting: DonkeyLips
I'm not even going to read this nonsense. Malkin by a country mile.


Quoting: TheresAlwaysNextYear
Tavares now, Malkin career


Quoting: linehan10
Tavares has a lot of trophies so I think its him


wait


Quoting: Jfstompers
if you could get engaged malkin every night hed still be better, id rather Tavares now


How high do you think Tavares deserves to be rated (out of 99) when he's at his best? Maybe 93?
10 nov 2019 à 18 h 02
#9
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Mikey F.
Rejoint: sep 2019
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@pharrow

What is your thought on this?
10 nov 2019 à 18 h 19
#10
Banni
Rejoint: oct 2019
Messages: 233
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Modifié 10 nov 2019 à 18 h 25
Malkin in a “down year” put up 72 points in 68 games. That’s a 1.06 ppg. Rounded up. This was a very unmotivated Malkin.

Tavares last year played with arguably the most talented players he ever has scored 88 points in 82 games. That’s 1.07ppg.

So an unmotivated Malkin was just as productive as Tavares playing with one of the best young wingers in the game.

Long story short. Malkin in his prime could compete with Crosby as the 2nd best player in the world. Cough cough Ovechkin is the best. (Jk I don’t want beef). Tavares prime vs Malkin prime I’m taking Malkin every time. It’s imo not even close. Right now? They are about even. Malkin is playing “average “ for Malkin and still as productive as Tavares. Imagine if he’s actually trying smile

Last thing.... Malkin is generational and will never get the respect he deserves. Swap kessel with Marner and last year Malkin gets 100 points. Impossible to prove but the guy is one of the most talented players in the nhl.


Also the islander advanced farther without him haha leafs lost in round 1. smile
Pens3lieve a aimé ceci.
10 nov 2019 à 18 h 21
#11
Islanders Fan
Rejoint: mai 2016
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he's reliable at both ends of the ice

You've never seen him back-check eh? Completely lackadaisical
10 nov 2019 à 18 h 23
#12
Banni
Rejoint: oct 2019
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Better comparison imo.

Do Stamkos first 4 years in the nhl vs Matthews. They are basically identical
10 nov 2019 à 18 h 28
#13
Démarrer sujet
Mikey F.
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Quoting: TopLineTom43
Malkin in a “down year” put up 72 points in 68 games. That’s a 1.06 ppg. Rounded up. This was a very unmotivated Malkin.

Tavares last year played with arguably the most talented players he ever has scored 88 points in 82 games. That’s 1.07ppg.

So an unmotivated Malkin was just as productive as Tavares playing with one of the best young wingers in the game.

Long story short. Malkin in his prime could compete with Crosby as the 2nd best player in the world. Cough cough Ovechkin is the best. (Jk I don’t want beef). Tavares prime vs Malkin prime I’m taking Malkin every time. It’s imo not even close. Right now? They are about even. Malkin is playing “average “ for Malkin and still as productive as Tavares. Imagine if he’s actually trying smile

Last thing.... Malkin is generational and will never get the respect he deserves. Swap kessel with Marner and last year Malkin gets 100 points. Impossible to prove but the guy is one of the most talented players in the nhl.


Also the islander advanced farther without him haha leafs lost in round 1. smile


There's not too much I can disagree on but I'm surprised that you Caps fans here view Geno so highly. I thought you would all say that Kuznetsov is better than Malkin (peak). I do think Tavares is a more complete player, but Malkin is a freak of nature. Give him Marner and he'd score 50 goals and 100 points in those 62 games.
Pens3lieve a aimé ceci.
10 nov 2019 à 18 h 29
#14
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Mikey F.
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Quoting: joshelkin
he's reliable at both ends of the ice

You've never seen him back-check eh? Completely lackadaisical


Well, it's certainly gotten better over the years and one of the reasons why the Leafs were successful last season at even strength during their 7 game series against Boston.
10 nov 2019 à 18 h 34
#15
Rejoint: jun 2018
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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan
How high do you think Tavares deserves to be rated (out of 99) when he's at his best? Maybe 93?


16
Pens3lieve a aimé ceci.
10 nov 2019 à 18 h 34
#16
Banni
Rejoint: oct 2019
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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan
There's not too much I can disagree on but I'm surprised that you Caps fans here view Geno so highly. I thought you would all say that Kuznetsov is better than Malkin (peak). I do think Tavares is a more complete player, but Malkin is a freak of nature. Give him Marner and he'd score 50 goals and 100 points in those 62 games.


Career Malkin has 657 take always 719 giveaways (-62 turnover ratio) but a +69

Tavares has 584 take aways 643 giveaways (-59 turnover ratio) but he’s a -23


I’d say they are both pretty average defensively. Malkin is just that cliche “lazy” player but they both have similar tk gv numbers. You could argue Malkin is better defensively



As a caps fan I hate Malkin but as a hockey fan I hate how he gets zero respect. He’s the penguins Backstrom. Penguins have 0 cups without him
10 nov 2019 à 22 h 19
#17
Rejoint: jun 2018
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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan
@pharrow

What is your thought on this?


JT is a better overall player. Malkin was never much for faceoffs, he's not the most defensively responsible player and never has been.

But Malkin is the guy who wins you games. Especially in his prime. He plays in ways still today that JT just can't.
He'll run you over on the way to the net and just drive the puck down your throat. It's why he ends up injured frequently.
It's why he's better at driving play.
He'll always be the better offensive option. It's why he works really well behind a guy like Crosby who can be put in the positions that allow Malkin to simply due what he does best while avoiding the things where he struggles aka faceoffs and playing in his own zone.
11 nov 2019 à 11 h 42
#18
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Mikey F.
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Quoting: TopLineTom43
Career Malkin has 657 take always 719 giveaways (-62 turnover ratio) but a +69

Tavares has 584 take aways 643 giveaways (-59 turnover ratio) but he’s a -23


I’d say they are both pretty average defensively. Malkin is just that cliche “lazy” player but they both have similar tk gv numbers. You could argue Malkin is better defensively



As a caps fan I hate Malkin but as a hockey fan I hate how he gets zero respect. He’s the penguins Backstrom. Penguins have 0 cups without him


Do you think Malkin was on the same level as Backstrom?
11 nov 2019 à 14 h 58
#19
Banni
Rejoint: oct 2019
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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan
Do you think Malkin was on the same level as Backstrom?


As far as skill? No. Malkin is better than Backstrom. Backstrom is actually more comparable to Tavares than Malkin. I would actually take Backy ove Tavares any day. They are on the same level of people disrespecting them. Malkin wasn’t a top 100 player all time but Toews was? What world is Toews nearly as good as Malkin or Backstrom ?
11 nov 2019 à 15 h 15
#20
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Mikey F.
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Quoting: TopLineTom43
As far as skill? No. Malkin is better than Backstrom. Backstrom is actually more comparable to Tavares than Malkin. I would actually take Backy ove Tavares any day. They are on the same level of people disrespecting them. Malkin wasn’t a top 100 player all time but Toews was? What world is Toews nearly as good as Malkin or Backstrom ?


If they made a top 100 players list now, I'm sure Malkin would get in. I think a lot of people forget how good Toews was. He wasn't as big as the hype (ie Crosby comparisons) but he was a really reliable two way center. Faced other teams' top players every night and was extremely good at generating possession in the offensive zone. Playing with Hossa definitely helped, but he was right up there with Bergeron and Kopitar.

I hope you can check out and subscribe to my YouTube channels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OblZhVrQ0dI
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS9Xo-oYHIhhBjNlGCkGULA

Thanks!
11 nov 2019 à 15 h 16
#21
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Mikey F.
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Quoting: Jfstompers
if you could get engaged malkin every night hed still be better, id rather Tavares now


I think Malkin has fallen off, no longer the player he once was but can still be an elite contributor to his team.

I hope you can check out and subscribe to my YouTube channels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OblZhVrQ0dI
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS9Xo-oYHIhhBjNlGCkGULA

Thanks!
11 nov 2019 à 15 h 26
#22
Banni
Rejoint: oct 2019
Messages: 233
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Quoting: MikeyThePensFan
If they made a top 100 players list now, I'm sure Malkin would get in. I think a lot of people forget how good Toews was. He wasn't as big as the hype (ie Crosby comparisons) but he was a really reliable two way center. Faced other teams' top players every night and was extremely good at generating possession in the offensive zone. Playing with Hossa definitely helped, but he was right up there with Bergeron and Kopitar.

I hope you can check out and subscribe to my YouTube channels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OblZhVrQ0dI
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS9Xo-oYHIhhBjNlGCkGULA

Thanks!


He was a solid shut down guy. His turnover ratio is very impressive but malkin has played 32 less games and has 245 more points. Malkins offensive upside is much better than Toews. Malkins 2 way play isn’t great but that’s not his style of play. Would you rather prevent 50 goals and score 20 or score 50 goals and give up 30?
11 nov 2019 à 15 h 27
#23
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Mikey F.
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Quoting: TopLineTom43
He was a solid shut down guy. His turnover ratio is very impressive but malkin has played 32 less games and has 245 more points. Malkins offensive upside is much better than Toews.


Well, I can't disagree with that. What about Malkin and Kane? Who do you take in their primes?
 
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