Forums/Armchair-GM

Brisebois must hate Dubas and Ferris

Créé par: BCAPP
Date de création initiale: sep 13, 2019
Publié: Sep 13 at 8:05 pm
Équipe: 2019-20 Lightning de Tampa Bay
Explications
Point can and should say pay me more than Marner. I'm a C, I score more goals and I scored more ppg
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANNÉESCAP HIT
Point, Brayden611 400 000 $
Transactions
TBL
  1. 2020 5e round pick (FLA)
MTL
  1. Coburn, Braydon
TBL
  1. Lehkonen, Artturi
  2. 2020 1e round pick (MTL)
Détails additionnels:
1st is top 10 protected
MTL
  1. Johnson, Tyler
Rachats de contrats
  • Matthew Carle: 1 833 333 $
  • Vincent Lecavalier: 0 $
Enfoui
  • Mike Condon: 1 325 000 $ (2 400 000 $)
  • Louis Domingue: 75 000 $ (1 150 000 $)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
TBL
VAN
MTL
TBL
TBL
TBL
DET
FLA
TBL
OTT
TBL
2021
TBL
TBL
TBL
TBL
TBL
TBL
TBL
NSH
2022
TBL
TBL
TBL
TBL
TBL
TBL
TBL
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $80 823 331 $0 $1 362 500 $676 669 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
TBL
Gourde, Yanni
5 166 666 $
AD, AG, C
NTC
UFA - 6
TBL
Stamkos, Steven
8 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 5
TBL
Kucherov, Nikita
9 500 000 $
AD
UFA - 8
TBL
Killorn, Alex
4 450 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 4
TBL
Point, Brayden
11 400 000 $
C, AD
RFA - 3
TBL
Palat, Ondrej
5 300 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 3
TBL
Paquette, Cédric
1 650 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
TBL
Cirelli, Anthony
728 333 $
C
RFA - 1
MTL
Lehkonen, Artturi
2 400 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
TBL
Joseph, Mathieu
728 333 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
TBL
Verhaeghe, Carter
700 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
TBL
Maroon, Patrick
900 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
TBL
Hedman, Victor
7 875 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 6
TBL
Shattenkirk, Kevin
1 750 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 1
TBL
Vasilevskiy, Andrei
3 500 000 $
G
UFA - 1
TBL
McDonagh, Ryan
6 750 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 7
TBL
Rutta, Jan
1 300 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
TBL
McElhinney, Curtis
1 300 000 $
G
UFA - 2
TBL
Sergachev, Mikhail
894 166 $
DG
RFA - 1
TBL
Cernak, Erik
697 500 $
DD
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
TBL
Schenn, Luke
700 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
TBL
Martel, Danick
700 000 $
AG
RFA - 1
TBL
Witkowski, Luke
700 000 $
DD
UFA - 2

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13 sep à 20 h 10
#1
Team caaaannnaaada
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,852
Mentions "j'aime": 466
Are you insane. No team in the league will
Gave that much for johnson. He add one great season but for the rest he is a 50 point players.
Montreal isn’t interesting in johnson. Not at that price
13 sep à 20 h 10
#2
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 418
Mentions "j'aime": 115
Just because Marner was overpayed, doesn’t mean everyone should be overpayed.
bhavikp27 a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 12
#3
Tspky
Rejoint: fév 2016
Messages: 2,638
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Quoting: I_Know_Nothing_About_Hockey_Or_Any_Sport2
Just because Marner was overpayed, doesn’t mean everyone should be overpayed.


Also, don’t forget Florida’s generous state tax.. there is none
13 sep à 20 h 12
#4
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 920
Mentions "j'aime": 245
Quoting: I_Know_Nothing_About_Hockey_Or_Any_Sport2
Just because Marner was overpayed, doesn’t mean everyone should be overpayed.


But it's also a good comparable. If Marner is worth 11, so should Point. Of course, the Lightning have the tax advantage, so maybe they can squeeze 500k-1m, or an extra year, out of Point. But as far as recent comparables go, Matthews and Marner are the 2 closest in my opinion.
BCAPP a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 12
#5
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Quoting: Sebybbq
Are you insane. No team in the league will
Gave that much for johnson. He add one great season but for the rest he is a 50 point players.
Montreal isn’t interesting in johnson. Not at that price


That seemed to be a fairly moderate price to me. A top 10 protected first, a 3rd pairing winger and a meh prospect for Johnson and a second
13 sep à 20 h 14
#6
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 920
Mentions "j'aime": 245
Quoting: BCAPP
That seemed to be a fairly moderate price to me. A top 10 protected first, a 3rd pairing winger and a meh prospect for Johnson and a second


I think that's a bit much. Maybe without the prospect it makes more sense. Other teams will also have extra leverage, knowing the Lightning need room. If they trade a guy like Johnson/Gourde, it's not going to be max return because they need space and other teams can exploit that to their advantage.
Sebybbq a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 16
#7
Team caaaannnaaada
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Quoting: BCAPP
That seemed to be a fairly moderate price to me. A top 10 protected first, a 3rd pairing winger and a meh prospect for Johnson and a second


Fleury was our best defenseman in laval last year. He is a top ten montreal prospect. Found another partner because montreal isn’t doing that trade. Johnson isn’t a upgrade on any top 6 players in montreal right now. Lehkonen add 16 less point than johnson playing third
Line and being 6 years younger
13 sep à 20 h 17
#8
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Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: Sebybbq
Are you insane. No team in the league will
Gave that much for johnson. He add one great season but for the rest he is a 50 point players.
Montreal isn’t interesting in johnson. Not at that price


So I may be overstating his value, but the flipside is this

In the last 5 years http://hkref.com/tiny/bgoQF he's 58th in the league for points by a forward (side note, he's 2 points ahead of RNH). That is ahead of any Montreal forward (highest is Gallagher at 101st).

There should be roughly 90 first line players in the league (30 teams, 3 first liners).

Johnson is a complimentary first liner or high end second liner.

He is a C who can also play w
13 sep à 20 h 18
#9
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Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: Sebybbq
Fleury was our best defenseman in laval last year. He is a top ten montreal prospect. Found another partner because montreal isn’t doing that trade. Johnson isn’t a upgrade on any top 6 players in montreal right now. Lehkonen add 16 less point than johnson playing third
Line and being 6 years younger


I included Fleury because I thought he was a mid tier prospect. If he wasn't I'll just remove him and the second
13 sep à 20 h 21
#10
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 418
Mentions "j'aime": 115
Quoting: NR1203
But it's also a good comparable. If Marner is worth 11, so should Point. Of course, the Lightning have the tax advantage, so maybe they can squeeze 500k-1m, or an extra year, out of Point. But as far as recent comparables go, Matthews and Marner are the 2 closest in my opinion.


I prefer Point to Marner, but I don’t see how they’re comparables. They have very different roles. Point is a shutdown center who had extremely good chemistry with Kucherov (and hence his stats are inflated). Marner is an offensive winter who has led his team in points for multiple years in a row. The Leafs also didn’t have the same discount expectations after Matthews and Nylander, and had more cap than the Lightning, who could not fit a $10m contract without making an NTC disappear, but have more of a discount culture and cheaper taxes. I think those factors make them hard to directly compare in value. Point’s team comparable is Stamkos; Marner thought his was Matthews.
13 sep à 20 h 23
#11
Team caaaannnaaada
Rejoint: jun 2019
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Quoting: BCAPP
So I may be overstating his value, but the flipside is this

In the last 5 years http://hkref.com/tiny/bgoQF he's 58th in the league for points by a forward (side note, he's 2 points ahead of RNH). That is ahead of any Montreal forward (highest is Gallagher at 101st).

There should be roughly 90 first line players in the league (30 teams, 3 first liners).

Johnson is a complimentary first liner or high end second liner.

He is a C who can also play w


He WAS! Since
Is 72 point season he haven’t been a top line players. He still have good hockey to gave but look more at a oilers team or arizona. Montreal doesnt need another top 6 wingers. They need a top players. Edmonton on others hand have that primary scoring but after
That its really thought to gets goal. They could
Use help on the second line
13 sep à 20 h 26
#12
Team caaaannnaaada
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,852
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Quoting: I_Know_Nothing_About_Hockey_Or_Any_Sport2
I prefer Point to Marner, but I don’t see how they’re comparables. They have very different roles. Point is a shutdown center who had extremely good chemistry with Kucherov (and hence his stats are inflated). Marner is an offensive winter who has led his team in points for multiple years in a row. The Leafs also didn’t have the same discount expectations after Matthews and Nylander, and had more cap than the Lightning, who could not fit a $10m contract without making an NTC disappear, but have more of a discount culture and cheaper taxes. I think those factors make them hard to directly compare in value. Point’s team comparable is Stamkos; Marner thought his was Matthews.


Just to let you know marner was use with tavares as shutdown players. He is very affective defensively creating takeaways. So they have more in commun then you think. Sure he doesn’t have the same defensive responsibility but marner isn’t just a offensive player.
13 sep à 20 h 29
#13
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 920
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Quoting: I_Know_Nothing_About_Hockey_Or_Any_Sport2
I prefer Point to Marner, but I don’t see how they’re comparables. They have very different roles. Point is a shutdown center who had extremely good chemistry with Kucherov (and hence his stats are inflated). Marner is an offensive winter who has led his team in points for multiple years in a row. The Leafs also didn’t have the same discount expectations after Matthews and Nylander, and had more cap than the Lightning, who could not fit a $10m contract without making an NTC disappear, but have more of a discount culture and cheaper taxes. I think those factors make them hard to directly compare in value. Point’s team comparable is Stamkos; Marner thought his was Matthews.


I prefer Point too, for sure. The RFA market is a whole lot different this year than any other year past. In no small part thanks to Dubas, RFA's now want top dollar. The "discount culture" in Tampa was thanks to Yzerman being a good negotiator, plus the tax advantages. Point would have signed by now if he bought in to that "culture" and BriseBois would have gotten out of it some other way.

The point is, that Matthews and Marner have changed the landscape of the league, a lot. RFA's now are willing to hold out for their money, if they know they're important enough to the team. They're all going to look for the best comparables, not in role, but in money and pure point production, regardless of team. Point, Rantanen, and the other RFA forwards are all going to use Marner as a comp, like it or not.
BCAPP a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 29
#14
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Quoting: I_Know_Nothing_About_Hockey_Or_Any_Sport2
I prefer Point to Marner, but I don’t see how they’re comparables. They have very different roles. Point is a shutdown center who had extremely good chemistry with Kucherov (and hence his stats are inflated). Marner is an offensive winter who has led his team in points for multiple years in a row. The Leafs also didn’t have the same discount expectations after Matthews and Nylander, and had more cap than the Lightning, who could not fit a $10m contract without making an NTC disappear, but have more of a discount culture and cheaper taxes. I think those factors make them hard to directly compare in value. Point’s team comparable is Stamkos; Marner thought his was Matthews.


It's one league. Stamkos' deal is a discount in today's terms. This just made life harder on Brisebois
NR1203 a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 38
#15
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 418
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Quoting: Sebybbq
Just to let you know marner was use with tavares as shutdown players. He is very affective defensively creating takeaways. So they have more in commun then you think. Sure he doesn’t have the same defensive responsibility but marner isn’t just a offensive player.


Oh, I didn’t realize that. Still, they’re still not really direct comparables considering they play relatively different roles (Point is more defensive and while he’s extremely offensively talented, Marner is probably more offensively talented, and they have different positions) on different teams in different situations.
13 sep à 20 h 40
#16
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 418
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Quoting: NR1203
I prefer Point too, for sure. The RFA market is a whole lot different this year than any other year past. In no small part thanks to Dubas, RFA's now want top dollar. The "discount culture" in Tampa was thanks to Yzerman being a good negotiator, plus the tax advantages. Point would have signed by now if he bought in to that "culture" and BriseBois would have gotten out of it some other way.

The point is, that Matthews and Marner have changed the landscape of the league, a lot. RFA's now are willing to hold out for their money, if they know they're important enough to the team. They're all going to look for the best comparables, not in role, but in money and pure point production, regardless of team. Point, Rantanen, and the other RFA forwards are all going to use Marner as a comp, like it or not.


Quoting: BCAPP
It's one league. Stamkos' deal is a discount in today's terms. This just made life harder on Brisebois


While that’s very possible and markets are interconnected, it’s worth noting that Point and BriseBois have barely talked. We don’t necessarily know that Point isn’t willing to take an insane discount.
13 sep à 20 h 42
#17
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 920
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Quoting: I_Know_Nothing_About_Hockey_Or_Any_Sport2
While that’s very possible and markets are interconnected, it’s worth noting that Point and BriseBois have barely talked. We don’t necessarily know that Point isn’t willing to take an insane discount.


How would Point and Brisebois not have spoken? Do you mean directly and not through Point's agent? Because it's hard to imagine that a GM wouldn't talk to an RFA or his camp at all throughout the summer. Also, if Point was willing to take a discount, he either would have told his agent or simply bypassed his agent and contacted the GM directly telling him that.
13 sep à 20 h 55
#18
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 418
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Quoting: NR1203
How would Point and Brisebois not have spoken? Do you mean directly and not through Point's agent? Because it's hard to imagine that a GM wouldn't talk to an RFA or his camp at all throughout the summer. Also, if Point was willing to take a discount, he either would have told his agent or simply bypassed his agent and contacted the GM directly telling him that.


I don’t know. It seemed crazy to me, but that’s what Friedman said and Joe Smith seemed to corroborate. Their most recent offer, according to LeBrun, was $5.7m x 3.
13 sep à 21 h 06
#19
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 920
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Quoting: I_Know_Nothing_About_Hockey_Or_Any_Sport2
I don’t know. It seemed crazy to me, but that’s what Friedman said and Joe Smith seemed to corroborate. Their most recent offer, according to LeBrun, was $5.7m x 3.


Yeah, and as we all know, that offer is ridiculous.
13 sep à 21 h 10
#20
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 418
Mentions "j'aime": 115
Quoting: NR1203
Yeah, and as we all know, that offer is ridiculous.


Yeah, but obviously BriseBois is fairly confident that Point is taking a completely crazy discount, or he wouldn’t have pushed the Lightning so far against the cap and then made offers like that one that seem almost insulting. He’s overestimating the discount, probably, but I think he feels that Point’s contract isn’t going to be that close to Marner, and if anyone knows, it’s him.
13 sep à 21 h 39
#21
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 920
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Quoting: I_Know_Nothing_About_Hockey_Or_Any_Sport2
Yeah, but obviously BriseBois is fairly confident that Point is taking a completely crazy discount, or he wouldn’t have pushed the Lightning so far against the cap and then made offers like that one that seem almost insulting. He’s overestimating the discount, probably, but I think he feels that Point’s contract isn’t going to be that close to Marner, and if anyone knows, it’s him.


Again, how is that certainty there? If Point really was willing to take a discount, he would sign and brisebois would make space around him. Maybe he could get point in the high 9's to low 10's if he's lucky.
14 sep à 4 h 48
#22
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 41
Mentions "j'aime": 11
High 9's to low 10's, not going to happen with Point, sorry. JBB knows what Tampa can and will spend and so made a smart offer of 5.7x3 for a bridge. After they negotiate he should come in around 7 aav on a 3 year bridge, maybe a little higher. Despite one inflated season, his overall stats indicate a value of around 7.15 million per year, so something around 7 is reasonable. Brisebois could care less about other teams and their overpaid contracts. Tampa has their internal structure and has been successful in signing their players this way. Point may end up getting paid more than Kuch and Vasy, but not on this contract.
Fatwater a aimé ceci.
14 sep à 4 h 53
#23
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 2,603
Mentions "j'aime": 1,012
The whole League ( except Tkachuk, Point, Rantanen, Laine and Connor ) hate Dubarelli right now. Ferris just jumped the bandwagon that started rolling in January 2019, played badass and won.
 
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