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Toronto Maple Leafs signed Mitchell Marner (6 Years / $10,893,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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13 sep à 20 h 02
#51
Oilers, Bruins, Habs
Rejoint: jui 2018
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Thank god that’s over
rangersandislesfan a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 02
#52
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 46
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Quoting: mondo
okay, since you don't know basic math:

projected cap hit for maple leafs 2020-21: $66,326,866
projected cap hit: $81,500,000
projected cap space: $15,173,134

Their cap hit is projected to be lower, because a bunch of their players will be free agents, meaning they need to re-sign them, or find replacements.
13 sep à 20 h 05
#53
best poster
Rejoint: jui 2019
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Quoting: TheCandoRailfan
Their cap hit is projected to be lower, because a bunch of their players will be free agents, meaning they need to re-sign them, or find replacements.


yeah, they have a bunch of players with expiring contracts next season. every team does.

do you think they're re-signing every ufa?
Random2152 a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 06
#54
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 28,212
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Quoting: TheCandoRailfan
It's not even all about Marner himself. It's about the Leafs cap space, or lack thereof. If this was the Leafs one big money player, then people probably wouldn't make as big of a deal about it. Even after taking Horton and Clarkson off the books for LTIR, the Leafs would still be $2.8 Million over the cap...


I disagree. Players value on their contract should not depend on the cap available on their team., it's league comparables. You are correct that the Leafs are about 2.8m over cap with 23 man roster. So what? That may/may not be the Leafs fault but you couldn't expect the Marner to fall on the sword for 2.8m, if he didn't have too. The Leafs option was a shorter team to be under the cap currently. Other teams have their own cap issue coming when their RFAs are signed. We'll see how they deal with their situation. Sure doesn't look like the Leafs are unique in their cap dilemma.
Dubas has already said they are going with reduced roster...that saves 800,00 or 1.6m.
Unfortunately IMO we are reaching a stage where top players are taking a bigger piece of the pie and the lesser players are getting less and/or left to play in the AHL. The NHLPA and the majority of it's members are mid to lower priced players. It's their issue. Owners are going to spend to the cap, it just a question of how the pie is divided.
BOLTLOVER1 et RawDeal a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 10
#55
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 46
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Quoting: mondo
yeah, they have a bunch of players with expiring contracts next season. every team does.

do you think they're re-signing every ufa?

Not necessarily, but they'll have to sign some players at least. Not to mention they'll need to leave space for future RFA's like Kapanen and Moore. Yes, they are a few years down the road, but if you don't leave enough cap space for them, and they end up earning a big raise, then here we go again.
13 sep à 20 h 12
#56
best poster
Rejoint: jui 2019
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Quoting: TheCandoRailfan
Not necessarily, but they'll have to sign some players at least. Not to mention they'll need to leave space for future RFA's like Kapanen and Moore. Yes, they are a few years down the road, but if you don't leave enough cap space for them, and they end up earning a big raise, then here we go again.


if the cap gets a hike in the next few years, toronto (and most other teams) will be gucci. not worried about the cap/
13 sep à 20 h 12
#57
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
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Quoting: mondo
yeah toronto is really screwed by having all their core players locked up in their prime


I'm a Leaf fan, and wish the top player took a smaller piece of the pie. But so many folks criticize the Leafs cap structure without looking at some of the other teams.
Doesn't take much investigation to see there are teams with have long term expensive contracts which take players into mid to late thirties. You're right, the Leaf cap dilemma isn't so daunting. And right or wrong we are seeing and not just on the Leafs, premium players getting a bigger slice of the cap. Marner's RFA contractjust might be the new norm.
Random2152 a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 12
#58
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 46
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Quoting: palhal
I disagree. Players value on their contract should not depend on the cap available on their team., it's league comparables. You are correct that the Leafs are about 2.8m over cap with 23 man roster. So what? That may/may not be the Leafs fault but you couldn't expect the Marner to fall on the sword for 2.8m, if he didn't have too. The Leafs option was a shorter team to be under the cap currently. Other teams have their own cap issue coming when their RFAs are signed. We'll see how they deal with their situation. Sure doesn't look like the Leafs are unique in their cap dilemma.
Dubas has already said they are going with reduced roster...that saves 800,00 or 1.6m.
Unfortunately IMO we are reaching a stage where top players are taking a bigger piece of the pie and the lesser players are getting less and/or left to play in the AHL. The NHLPA and the majority of it's members are mid to lower priced players. It's their issue. Owners are going to spend to the cap, it just a question of how the pie is divided.

Yeah, because there's such a big difference between $8 million and $11 million, not. Unless you're Jack Johnson, you're set for life regardless.
13 sep à 20 h 14
#59
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
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Quoting: TheCandoRailfan
Their cap hit is projected to be lower, because a bunch of their players will be free agents, meaning they need to re-sign them, or find replacements.


Isn't that true with all UFAs...not just the Leafs, your UFAs leave and are replaced by other players. By definition, unrestricted FREE agents, aren't yours to sign. They are free.
13 sep à 20 h 19
#60
Rejoint: sep 2019
Messages: 1
Mentions "j'aime": 0
The leafs had the cap space (thanks to LTIR) so they put it to good use to sign a very good player. As a leafs fan, I don't mind this contract.

The thing no one seems to be talking about is the fact that Dubas just set the market, so now every other GM with an RFA will likely have to pay more to sign them than they wanted. Not only did Dubas get Marner signed in the deal, he got a unique opportunity to make it a bit more difficult for Tampa, Calgary, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Colorado, and every team with a high profile, talented RFA coming up for a new contract over the next couple of years.

Smart move for Dubas in the long run. All I care about is that Mitch Marner will likely wear a Toronto jersey for the next 6 years, and that makes me happy. The rest is Dubas' problem to sort out. He signed the contract so obviously he thinks he can make everything fit together.
13 sep à 20 h 20
#61
Ragsandboltsfan
Rejoint: nov 2017
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Quoting: Jetman
Why that number????


Little did he know another minumum is 700 thousand not 7 thousand
13 sep à 20 h 21
#62
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 1,587
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Haha

**** Dubas continues to prove why he's the worst GM in the league.

1. Half of the cap on 4 players and they still have yet to get out of the first round.
2. 1 defender signed beyond this season with little to no money left to get replacements
3. Prospects are looking bare and no first round pick this year.

I love watching this team burn to the ground after getting all of leafs nation hopes up!
habs_fan123 a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 23
#63
Rejoint: aoû 2019
Messages: 102
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Every single time the Leafs signed a guy:
Tavares signs: "Good luck signing Nylander!"
Nylander signs: "Good luck signing Matthews and Marner now!"
Matthews signs: "Well, Say goodbye to Marner"
Marner signs: "Lol no more Rielly and Freddy in 2-3 years"

Seriously? Are going to continue this? Do some math people.. They are gonna sign all their core guys especially as the cap goes up 2-3 million per year.
Marner is overpayed by about 1 million.... Not going to make or break signing anybody else. Stop being tools
adam16660 et Random2152 a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 30
#64
Rejoint: jan 2019
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Quoting: MadLin27
Every single time the Leafs signed a guy:
Tavares signs: "Good luck signing Nylander!"
Nylander signs: "Good luck signing Matthews and Marner now!"
Matthews signs: "Well, Say goodbye to Marner"
Marner signs: "Lol no more Rielly and Freddy in 2-3 years"

Seriously? Are going to continue this? Do some math people.. They are gonna sign all their core guys especially as the cap goes up 2-3 million per year.
Marner is overpayed by about 1 million.... Not going to make or break signing anybody else. Stop being tools


I don't think people say good luck to signing *insert player name*

I think they say good luck to putting together a decent team that can get out of the first round. This team doesn't achieve that
13 sep à 20 h 33
#65
Rejoint: aoû 2019
Messages: 102
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Quoting: HabsForEver
I don't think people say good luck to signing *insert player name*

I think they say good luck to putting together a decent team that can get out of the first round. This team doesn't achieve that


Yes. They do...
They have an amazing core of stars.
The 3rd lines and pairings can be filled with depth guys on ELC's or guys like Jason Spezza, Tyler Ennis, Trevor Moore, Jeremy Bracco.

Also.. There core is locked up for the next few years. Cap will go up.
13 sep à 20 h 34
#66
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 69
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PROJECTED CAP HIT $94,865,199




this
rangersandislesfan a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 44
#67
GoJetsGo
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 500
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
But how does this affect the Leafs?


It doesn't, we're still waiting anxiously to see what Frederik Gauthier signs for next summer. sarcasm
Kotkaniemi15 a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 20 h 52
#68
Rejoint: mai 2016
Messages: 98
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Quoting: EthanK24
It’s not bad for Mikko Rantanen and Matthew Tkachuk.


But it’s bad for Colorado, Calgary and the rest of the league with RFA’s holding out right now
13 sep à 20 h 53
#69
Rejoint: jan 2019
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Quoting: GeraltofRivia
But it’s bad for Colorado, Calgary and the rest of the league with RFA’s holding out right now


Pretty sure Dubas ruined the entire NHL Market

Throwing 11 Million at Tavares, holding out on Nylander and caving in, Giving Matthews the term he wants and overpaid, holding out with Marner and caving in
13 sep à 20 h 58
#70
Formerly EthanK24
Rejoint: jun 2017
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Quoting: GeraltofRivia
But it’s bad for Colorado, Calgary and the rest of the league with RFA’s holding out right now


Definitely. Sets the market for top players from now on.
rangersandislesfan a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 21 h 00
#71
Majors and minors
Rejoint: mai 2017
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According to CapFriendly with no signing bonus:
He loses to escrow depending on % of escrow;
13 sep à 21 h 02
#72
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 1,587
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Quoting: EthanK24
Definitely. Sets the market for top players from now on.


Sets the presence for the time being. It will drop again when a RFA takes a hometown discount
13 sep à 21 h 02
#73
Majors and minors
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 77
Mentions "j'aime": 13
Quoting: CoraStorm
According to CapFriendly with no signing bonus:
He loses to escrow depending on % of escrow;


now i use 15% on each yrs totals.... so approx 1.6 mil per year x number of years.
13 sep à 21 h 03
#74
Majors and minors
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 77
Mentions "j'aime": 13
Quoting: EthanK24
Definitely. Sets the market for top players from now on.


no it doesn't because numbers are misleading.... remember escrow to signing bonuses.
13 sep à 21 h 18
#75
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 110
Mentions "j'aime": 77
This was a close deal for me to say whether or not I liked the value of, but the pro's far outweigh the cons.

The downside, the deal itself is expensive, and is high compared to the previous market for 2nd contracts on RFA wingers, and likely going to look a little high even after his peers this year sign. For those reasons. It's hard to say how high compared to those other deals, but I have a feeling this will be the biggest AAV of any of the 2nd contracts.

The upside is that Dubas was given what most called an impossible task. There were hockey analysts that Guaranteed that Nylander would be traded because there was no way to sign all of the big 3 after the Tavares contract. Then it was assumed that young wingers like Kapanen and Johnsson would likely be sacrificed, but instead they were signed to solid deals. Most thought Toronto wouldn't be able to address their blueline or take on additional cap hit until the Marner scenario was taken care of, but instead they make a trade where they get a reasonable 3rd line center and their coveted RHD as well as move out the Marleau and Zaitsev contracts. Then it was assumed that Marner would be sitting to start the year, and that the only solution was a bridge deal, but instead Marner is signed for a term that isn't 5 years.

The reality is the Leafs are likely going into the season as a top 5-6 team in the NHL, they are at the cap but their core is locked up to considerable term, their team is young and their window should be several years, and their cap situation actually starts ease up when they are no longer riding the constant LTIR carousel and Ceci's deal comes off the books. Considering how impossible the to do list seemed, and the most people would have assumed the Leafs current depth chart wouldn't be cap compliant if it had been handed to you without salaries next to the names back when they announced the $81.5M cap, it's hard to say it's a bad deal. It's certainly not a steal, but to call it bad seems just factually incorrect considering the undertaking, and I think having it done with no missed games just puts it over the line to being positive.
vmark, BurgerBoss et Oggsford_Blues a aimé ceci.
 
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