Forums/Armchair-GM

Retract the Faulk offer And go after Honka

Créé par: Jah1722
Date de création initiale: sep 13, 2019
Publié: Sep 13 at 11:49 am
Équipe: 2019-20 Ducks d'Anaheim
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANNÉESCAP HIT
Honka, Julius1850 000 $
Transactions
ANA
  1. Honka, Julius [Droits de RFA]
DAL
  1. Sherwood, Kiefer
  2. 2021 4e round pick (ANA)
Rachats de contrats
  • Corey Perry: 2 625 000 $
  • Simon Despres: 0 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
ANA
ANA
ANA
ANA
ANA
2021
ANA
ANA
ANA
ANA
ANA
ANA
2022
ANA
ANA
ANA
ANA
ANA
ANA
ANA
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2581 500 000 $76 527 257 $0 $2 315 000 $4 972 743 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
ANA
Comtois, Maxime
820 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 2
ANA
Getzlaf, Ryan
8 250 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 2
ANA
Kase, Ondrej
2 600 000 $
AD
RFA - 2
ANA
Rakell, Rickard
3 789 444 $
C, AD, AG
UFA - 3
ANA
Steel, Sam
863 333 $
C
RFA - 2
ANA
Silfverberg, Jakob
5 250 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 5
ANA
Ritchie, Nick
1 498 925 $
AG
RFA - 2
ANA
Henrique, Adam
5 825 000 $
C
NTC
UFA - 5
ANA
Terry, Troy
925 000 $
C, AD
RFA - 1
ANA
Shore, Devin
2 300 000 $
AG, C, AD
RFA - 1
ANA
Rowney, Carter
1 133 333 $
C, AD
UFA - 2
ANA
Sprong, Daniel
750 000 $
AD
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
ANA
Lindholm, Hampus
5 205 556 $
DG
UFA - 3
ANA
Manson, Josh
4 100 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
ANA
Gibson, John
6 400 000 $
G
UFA - 8
ANA
Guhle, Brendan
697 500 $
DG
RFA - 1
ANA
Fowler, Cam
6 500 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 7
ANA
Miller, Ryan
1 125 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
ANA
Larsson, Jacob
894 166 $
DG
RFA - 1
Honka, Julius
850 000 $
DD
RFA
ANA
Del Zotto, Michael
750 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
ANA
Hakanpää, Jani
850 000 $
D
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
ANA
Holzer, Korbinian
850 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
ANA
Kesler, Ryan
6 875 000 $
C, AD
NMC
UFA - 3
ANA
Grant, Derek
700 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
ANA
Eaves, Patrick
3 150 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 1
ANA
Deslauriers, Nicolas
950 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1

Code d'intégration

  • Pour afficher cette équipe sur un autre site Web ou blog, ajoutez ce iFrame à la page appropriée
  • Personnalisez les dimensions dans le code IFrame ci-dessous pour adapter votre site de manière appropriée. Minimum recommandé: 400px.

Texte intégré

Cliquer pour surligner
13 sep à 11 h 50
#1
get off my lawn...
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 9,465
Mentions "j'aime": 4,282
Is it just me or does this Faulk deal seem like it’s dead in the water?
TanSor a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 11 h 59
#2
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 815
Mentions "j'aime": 203
Would rather have Sherwood. He looked extremely good during the rookie tournament. He is rounding out into a good energy player. Honka is a bust and it is highly unlikely he becomes a consistent NHLer. Highly drafted D-men who don't show any progression don't usually become good after years of being "meh" - this is my concern for Larsson.

Quoting: Jamiepo
Is it just me or does this Faulk deal seem like it’s dead in the water?


Probably. In fact, it's probably been dead for a while, hence why CAR leaked information to get more offers/jump start negotiations between ANA and Faulk again.
Jamiepo et TanSor a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 12 h 17
#3
Démarrer sujet
Jah1722
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 1,021
Mentions "j'aime": 305
Quoting: Jamiepo
Is it just me or does this Faulk deal seem like it’s dead in the water?


It’s Faulk taking advantage of his NTC and holding out for a team and/or contract extension he likes.
Jamiepo et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 12 h 23
#4
Démarrer sujet
Jah1722
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 1,021
Mentions "j'aime": 305
Quoting: mytduxfan
Would rather have Sherwood. He looked extremely good during the rookie tournament. He is rounding out into a good energy player. Honka is a bust and it is highly unlikely he becomes a consistent NHLer. Highly drafted D-men who don't show any progression don't usually become good after years of being "meh" - this is my concern for Larsson.



Probably. In fact, it's probably been dead for a while, hence why CAR leaked information to get more offers/jump start negotiations between ANA and Faulk again.


I wouldn’t. Sherwood is bad. He’s a turnover machine and nothing more than a bottom 6 guy. Easily replaceable. Honka was drafted in the 1st for a reason. He also has very good metrics in his short sample size. There’s limited risk in adding him.
13 sep à 12 h 23
#5
get off my lawn...
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 9,465
Mentions "j'aime": 4,282
Quoting: Jah1722
It’s Faulk taking advantage of his NTC and holding out for a team and/or contract extension he likes.


That’s what I figured.
13 sep à 12 h 34
#6
OldNYIfan
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 6,504
Mentions "j'aime": 2,629
I really like this idea, primarily because a healthy Kase is likely to always be better than Sherwood. I'm willing to take the chance that Kase is injury-free for most of the rest of his career.

Faulk for Kase makes sense only if Kase's injury problems resurface, and persist.
13 sep à 13 h 28
#7
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 815
Mentions "j'aime": 203
Quoting: Jah1722
I wouldn’t. Sherwood is bad. He’s a turnover machine and nothing more than a bottom 6 guy. Easily replaceable. Honka was drafted in the 1st for a reason. He also has very good metrics in his short sample size. There’s limited risk in adding him.


Yes, he's a bottom 6 energy player and probably spends most of his career on the 4th, but I disagree with your description of him as "bad". The kid posted 6-6 last year in his first NHL season on an offensively-dry Ducks team. I don't know where you get the idea he's a "turnover machine". The eye test doesn't agree with you on that one and neither do his giveaway stats. He's got good skating, is a menace to deal with, and gives it his all every shift. We need more players like him.

So Honka was drafted because of his metrics? That doesn't make sense. Honka doesn't do anything special. He's a classic case of a young kid with good skating and offensive-abilities coming out of junior who couldn't find a balance when forced to improve his D to get an NHL spot. We've seen this so many times. DAL fans like to complain about the coaches, but you're talking about a DAL team that was desperate for him to succeed. Honka was drafted before Klingberg, Heis and Lindell were a thing. They gave him every opportunity and he's never lived up to expectation.

I'll admit that the risk : reward ratio is pretty good on this one, mainly because Sherwood isn't particularly valuable. However, I think Honka is just another Larsson. Good in one area, bad in the other and struggling to find the balance. I am sure you don't agree, but I don't see the point in giving up a solid bottom 6 NHLer + a 4th round pick for a player that more than likely ends up in the AHL. I am sure there is a deal that could be made, but I'd hang onto Sherwood.
OrangeMallard a aimé ceci.
13 sep à 14 h 01
#8
Démarrer sujet
Jah1722
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 1,021
Mentions "j'aime": 305
Quoting: mytduxfan
Yes, he's a bottom 6 energy player and probably spends most of his career on the 4th, but I disagree with your description of him as "bad". The kid posted 6-6 last year in his first NHL season on an offensively-dry Ducks team. I don't know where you get the idea he's a "turnover machine". The eye test doesn't agree with you on that one and neither do his giveaway stats. He's got good skating, is a menace to deal with, and gives it his all every shift. We need more players like him.

So Honka was drafted because of his metrics? That doesn't make sense. Honka doesn't do anything special. He's a classic case of a young kid with good skating and offensive-abilities coming out of junior who couldn't find a balance when forced to improve his D to get an NHL spot. We've seen this so many times. DAL fans like to complain about the coaches, but you're talking about a DAL team that was desperate for him to succeed. Honka was drafted before Klingberg, Heis and Lindell were a thing. They gave him every opportunity and he's never lived up to expectation.

I'll admit that the risk : reward ratio is pretty good on this one, mainly because Sherwood isn't particularly valuable. However, I think Honka is just another Larsson. Good in one area, bad in the other and struggling to find the balance. I am sure you don't agree, but I don't see the point in giving up a solid bottom 6 NHLer + a 4th round pick for a player that more than likely ends up in the AHL. I am sure there is a deal that could be made, but I'd hang onto Sherwood.


you can have your opinion but Sherwood is nothing more than a minimal depth piece that cant receive simple passes. and if you missed them all you just werent watching. hes not good. Honka is a RHD that the Ducks have 2 of with NHL experience (Wideman will be in SD all season). Adding a player with good metrics and pretty good blueline numbers is a plus.
13 sep à 15 h 02
#9
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 815
Mentions "j'aime": 203
Quoting: Jah1722
you can have your opinion but Sherwood is nothing more than a minimal depth piece that cant receive simple passes. and if you missed them all you just werent watching. hes not good. Honka is a RHD that the Ducks have 2 of with NHL experience (Wideman will be in SD all season). Adding a player with good metrics and pretty good blueline numbers is a plus.


If you think he’s good enough for the NHL. Clearly we disagree on this point.
13 sep à 17 h 02
#10
Démarrer sujet
Jah1722
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 1,021
Mentions "j'aime": 305
Quoting: mytduxfan
If you think he’s good enough for the NHL. Clearly we disagree on this point.


Here’s my biggest point, Kase for Faulk isn’t the best trade for the ducks. I want to keep Kase.

I think at worst Honka is better than Holzer and Wideman and battles Hakanpää for 3 RD going into the season. Maybe the 4th is overpayment but I think a swap of Sherwood for Honka benefits the ducks. They’re trading from a wing that they have numerous bodies to add a RD that they have 1 quality NHL player at. There’s no risk in adding Honka who needs a change of scenery.

Idk if you use Evolving Hockey at all but check out Honka’s chart on there. It’s pretty good even if he stays as a 3rd pair guy. I also saw a chart that showed Honka as DAL’s 2nd best D man behind Miro in zone exits/zone denials. Numbers say he’s worth giving a shot too.

Now if DAL has a high price then we can agree that it’s not worth it but if Sherwood or one of the other NHL fringe guys and a late pick can get it done that I think it’s worth it.
13 sep à 18 h 08
#11
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 815
Mentions "j'aime": 203
Quoting: Jah1722
Here’s my biggest point, Kase for Faulk isn’t the best trade for the ducks. I want to keep Kase.


Fair enough. For me, Kase is movable in the right deal. He's a good player and I love him because, like Sherwood, he gives it 100% every shift. However, Kase is constantly injured. He's the Chris Tanev of wingers. I don't think we'll get a season out of him ever and I think he's at serious risk of eventually having to hang them up due to head injuries. I have had a number of concussions myself and you never fully-recover and are always prone to another one. In any event, I think Faulk is getting criminally-underrated. The deal is only bad if Kase stays healthy for pretty much all of his career and ends up a consistent 25-25 guy. I don't see that happening and so Faulk seems like a good return. FWIW, I'd pay Kase+ for Risto or Spurgeon too.

Quoting: Jah1722
I think at worst Honka is better than Holzer and Wideman and battles Hakanpää for 3 RD going into the season. Maybe the 4th is overpayment but I think a swap of Sherwood for Honka benefits the ducks. They’re trading from a wing that they have numerous bodies to add a RD that they have 1 quality NHL player at. There’s no risk in adding Honka who needs a change of scenery.


I am not saying Sherwood isn't movable. He totally is. However, IMO, Honka isn't the player we should move him for. It's not even Sherwood for a mystery box. Honka has been bad for years. He sucked for Finland at both WC events and he's sucked for DAL 3 seasons now. I don't see how a change of scenery will change that.

Quoting: Jah1722
Idk if you use Evolving Hockey at all but check out Honka’s chart on there. It’s pretty good even if he stays as a 3rd pair guy. I also saw a chart that showed Honka as DAL’s 2nd best D man behind Miro in zone exits/zone denials. Numbers say he’s worth giving a shot too.


You should read the Hfboard on this. Pretty much every DAL fan saying Honka's analytics look great, but he doesn't pass the eye test. His reactions are too slow and he's very bad defensively.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/julius-honka-has-asked-for-a-trade.2686567/page-3

Quoting: Jah1722
Now if DAL has a high price then we can agree that it’s not worth it but if Sherwood or one of the other NHL fringe guys and a late pick can get it done that I think it’s worth it.


See, I don't view Sherwood as a "fringe" NHLer, I think he's solid and certainly better than some of our previous 4th line wingers i.e. Chris Wagner, Jared Boll, Logan Shaw, Ben Street, etc. You say he's easily replaceable, but he's still better than Deslauriers and I don't think Grant's skating would allow him to play on the wing.

In any event, I think the ask will be higher than Sherwood. Around a 3rd round pick would be my guess and I think that's too much. Kids a bust from what I have seen.
13 sep à 20 h 55
#12
Démarrer sujet
Jah1722
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 1,021
Mentions "j'aime": 305
Quoting: mytduxfan
Fair enough. For me, Kase is movable in the right deal. He's a good player and I love him because, like Sherwood, he gives it 100% every shift. However, Kase is constantly injured. He's the Chris Tanev of wingers. I don't think we'll get a season out of him ever and I think he's at serious risk of eventually having to hang them up due to head injuries. I have had a number of concussions myself and you never fully-recover and are always prone to another one. In any event, I think Faulk is getting criminally-underrated. The deal is only bad if Kase stays healthy for pretty much all of his career and ends up a consistent 25-25 guy. I don't see that happening and so Faulk seems like a good return. FWIW, I'd pay Kase+ for Risto or Spurgeon too.



I am not saying Sherwood isn't movable. He totally is. However, IMO, Honka isn't the player we should move him for. It's not even Sherwood for a mystery box. Honka has been bad for years. He sucked for Finland at both WC events and he's sucked for DAL 3 seasons now. I don't see how a change of scenery will change that.



You should read the Hfboard on this. Pretty much every DAL fan saying Honka's analytics look great, but he doesn't pass the eye test. His reactions are too slow and he's very bad defensively.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/julius-honka-has-asked-for-a-trade.2686567/page-3



See, I don't view Sherwood as a "fringe" NHLer, I think he's solid and certainly better than some of our previous 4th line wingers i.e. Chris Wagner, Jared Boll, Logan Shaw, Ben Street, etc. You say he's easily replaceable, but he's still better than Deslauriers and I don't think Grant's skating would allow him to play on the wing.

In any event, I think the ask will be higher than Sherwood. Around a 3rd round pick would be my guess and I think that's too much. Kids a bust from what I have seen.


I’d be willing to move Kase for a Dman too. Just don’t think Faulk is the guy even if he boosted the PP. he’d have to play with Fowler because Fowler can’t play with anyone it seems like and I don’t see that going well defensively. Fowler and Manson didn’t work last season and Manson and Lindholm have shown the ability to be a very good shut down pair.

You can hate Honka. His numbers are good. You care about the “eye test” but fail to see Sherwood’s turnovers. He never handled a pass cleanly and he dump and chases way too much.

Every team has a player they hate. DAL fans hate on Honka for a small sample size of his first nhl action. The NHL game is faster than the AHL. He needs a change and why not the ducks who are retooling and aren’t cup contenders? Give me a guy who’s metrics are good over guy who has bad metrics and a bad “eye test”.
14 sep à 10 h 03
#13
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 815
Mentions "j'aime": 203
Quoting: Jah1722
I’d be willing to move Kase for a Dman too. Just don’t think Faulk is the guy even if he boosted the PP. he’d have to play with Fowler because Fowler can’t play with anyone it seems like and I don’t see that going well defensively. Fowler and Manson didn’t work last season and Manson and Lindholm have shown the ability to be a very good shut down pair.


Fair enough. I can see how Fowler - Faulk might work, but I can also see how it might be a complete disaster. I've always held the opinion that Fowler's ideal partner is an elite RHD, like a Weber or Parayko type with a big body and bullet shot. Someone who will take those hits while passing the puck off to Fowler (who can skate it out of danger and quickly get us back on the attack), but that can provide the offensive threat that Fowler doesn't have. Now there aren't players like that available, so you have to sacrifice something. You go with Faulk, you sacrifice D, you go with a Carlo-type, you sacrifice offence. If only Fowler could shoot the puck, he'd be a completely different level of player. *sigh* oh well.

Quoting: Jah1722
You can hate Honka. His numbers are good. You care about the “eye test” but fail to see Sherwood’s turnovers. He never handled a pass cleanly and he dump and chases way too much.


I don't know, call me old fashioned, but I like to watch my hockey, not read it from a sheet full of numbers. You complain about the "eye test", but Sherwood's giveaway numbers don't even match your argument that he's a "turnover machine". Anyway, last year was a rough one for everyone. I think Sherwood looked great at the recent rookie tournament. He's obviously improved over the summer and I am expecting him to secure a nice role in our line-up.

Quoting: Jah1722
Every team has a player they hate. DAL fans hate on Honka for a small sample size of his first nhl action. The NHL game is faster than the AHL. He needs a change and why not the ducks who are retooling and aren’t cup contenders? Give me a guy who’s metrics are good over guy who has bad metrics and a bad “eye test”.


Man, the mental gymnastic you have to do to justify your belief that Honka is good is hilarious. Sure, ok... DAL fans are just hater. I am just a hater. Every Finnish hockey fan who watched him play in the WC is just a hater. You're correct and everyone else, including NHL level coaches who even gave him 87 games to demonstrate he was good, are all wrong and you are right because you looked at a computer screen filled with numbers. Congratulations!
14 sep à 15 h 01
#14
Démarrer sujet
Jah1722
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 1,021
Mentions "j'aime": 305
Quoting: mytduxfan
Fair enough. I can see how Fowler - Faulk might work, but I can also see how it might be a complete disaster. I've always held the opinion that Fowler's ideal partner is an elite RHD, like a Weber or Parayko type with a big body and bullet shot. Someone who will take those hits while passing the puck off to Fowler (who can skate it out of danger and quickly get us back on the attack), but that can provide the offensive threat that Fowler doesn't have. Now there aren't players like that available, so you have to sacrifice something. You go with Faulk, you sacrifice D, you go with a Carlo-type, you sacrifice offence. If only Fowler could shoot the puck, he'd be a completely different level of player. *sigh* oh well.



I don't know, call me old fashioned, but I like to watch my hockey, not read it from a sheet full of numbers. You complain about the "eye test", but Sherwood's giveaway numbers don't even match your argument that he's a "turnover machine". Anyway, last year was a rough one for everyone. I think Sherwood looked great at the recent rookie tournament. He's obviously improved over the summer and I am expecting him to secure a nice role in our line-up.



Man, the mental gymnastic you have to do to justify your belief that Honka is good is hilarious. Sure, ok... DAL fans are just hater. I am just a hater. Every Finnish hockey fan who watched him play in the WC is just a hater. You're correct and everyone else, including NHL level coaches who even gave him 87 games to demonstrate he was good, are all wrong and you are right because you looked at a computer screen filled with numbers. Congratulations!


Honestly if Fowler has partner struggles again this year it might be time seriously look at moving him. At some point when things continuously fail to work maybe he’s the problem?

Giveaway stats are worst than +/-. Who knows what each stat guy sees as a giveaway. You can’t be serious thinking giveaway stats show much.

As for Honka, I never said he was good. I said give him a chance. I was wrong thinking before last season he had very short stints in the NHL. Still doesn’t change that I think he’s a low risk addition.
mytduxfan a aimé ceci.
14 sep à 15 h 32
#15
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 815
Mentions "j'aime": 203
Quoting: Jah1722
Honestly if Fowler has partner struggles again this year it might be time seriously look at moving him. At some point when things continuously fail to work maybe he’s the problem?

Giveaway stats are worst than +/-. Who knows what each stat guy sees as a giveaway. You can’t be serious thinking giveaway stats show much.

As for Honka, I never said he was good. I said give him a chance. I was wrong thinking before last season he had very short stints in the NHL. Still doesn’t change that I think he’s a low risk addition.


Agree on Fowler.

Agree on giveaway stats, but then it’s my eye test vs. yours. We can agree to disagree on Sherwood.

I don’t agree Honka is a low risk addition. He’s a bust in my eyes. It would be a waste of an asset acquiring him to find out he’s as bad as everyone says he is. Again, we can agree to disagree on this point.
 
Répondre
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Ajouter une option
Supprimer une option
Soumettre le sondage