Forums/Armchair-GM

Agressive trade to get Marner

Créé par: Willian_Cardoso
Date de création initiale: jui 12, 2019
Publié: Jul 12 at 10:44 pm
Équipe: 2019-20 Devils du New Jersey
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANNÉESCAP HIT
Butcher, Will54 500 000 $
Zacha, Pavel31 500 000 $
Carrick, Connor21 500 000 $
Mueller, Mirco11 000 000 $
Marner, Mitchell810 500 000 $
Transactions
NJD
  1. Marner, Mitchell [Droits de RFA]
TOR
  1. Vatanen, Sami
  2. Boqvist, Jesper
  3. Bratt, Jesper
  4. 2020 1e round pick (NJD)
  5. 2022 1e round pick (NJD)
Détails additionnels:
2021 Conditional 2nd: If Marner scores +95 points in 19/20 regular season.
Rachats de contrats
  • Mike Cammalleri: 1 666 667 $
Frais appliqués
  • Ilya Kovalchuk: 250 000 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
NJD
NJD
BOS
NJD
NJD
NJD
2021
NJD
NJD
NJD
NJD
NJD
NJD
NJD
2022
NJD
NJD
NJD
NJD
CBJ
NJD
NJD
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $76 480 833 $0 $5 832 500 $5 019 167 $

Formation

Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
NJD
Hall, Taylor
6 000 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
NJD
Hischier, Nico
925 000 $
C
RFA - 1
NJD
Palmieri, Kyle
4 650 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 2
NJD
Coleman, Blake
1 800 000 $
C, AG, AD
UFA - 2
NJD
Hughes, Jack
925 000 $
C
RFA - 3
Marner, Mitchell
10 500 000 $
AD
RFA
NJD
Wood, Miles
2 750 000 $
AG
RFA - 3
NJD
Zajac, Travis
5 750 000 $
C
NTC
UFA - 2
NJD
Simmonds, Wayne
5 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
NJD
Rooney, Kevin
700 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
NJD
Zacha, Pavel
1 500 000 $
C
RFA
NJD
Hayden, John
750 000 $
C, AD
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
NJD
Greene, Andy
5 000 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 1
NJD
Subban, P.K.
9 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 3
NJD
Schneider, Cory
6 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 3
NJD
Butcher, Will
4 500 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
NJD
Severson, Damon
4 166 666 $
DD
UFA - 4
NJD
Blackwood, Mackenzie
697 500 $
G
RFA - 1
NJD
Mueller, Mirco
1 000 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
NJD
Carrick, Connor
1 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
NJD
Tennyson, Matt
700 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
NJD
Street, Ben
750 000 $
C
UFA - 1

Unités spéciales

Avantage numérique 1
Hischier, N.
Hughes, J.
, .
Hall, T.
Subban, P.
Avantage numérique 2
Palmieri, K.
Zajac, T.
Simmonds, W.
Butcher, W.
Severson, D.
Infériorité numérique 1
Coleman, B.
Zajac, T.
Greene, A.
Subban, P.
Infériorité numérique 2
Hischier, N.
Simmonds, W.
Mueller, M.
Severson, D.

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12 jui à 22h56
#1
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 97
Mentions "j'aime": 25
By aggressive you mean aggressively light.
12 jui à 22h59
#2
tomato
Rejoint: oct 2018
Messages: 127
Mentions "j'aime": 49
If Marner was going to accept a deal anywhere close to that he would just do it with the Maple Leafs. A 28 year old oft injured soon to be UFA Vatanen isn't enticing in the least no matter how much is retained. Bratt isn't anything special, and while Boqvist is an intriguing prospect these spare parts dont come close to the value of Marner. Good youngish player(s) with term and a blue chip prospect in addition to the draft picks will be needed to get Toronto to even think of a trade.
12 jui à 23h01
#3
mondo
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 566
Mentions "j'aime": 317
devils don't really have any assets which would want the leafs to consider trading marner.
12 jui à 23h43
#4
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 331
Mentions "j'aime": 87
Quoting: mondo
devils don't really have any assets which would want the leafs to consider trading marner.


well we do, just not willing to part with them lol
13 jui à 8h52
#5
ChytilMania
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 1,085
Mentions "j'aime": 234
Quoting: glc_0908
well we do, just not willing to part with them lol


If you’re unwilling to part with the necessary assets to aquore him, then you cannot trade for Marner.
13 jui à 9h22
#6
Démarrer sujet
Let's go Pens!
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 1,565
Mentions "j'aime": 257
Quoting: TooMalevolent
By aggressive you mean aggressively light.


Bratt is just 20 and has a great upside to be a top 6 winger. Boqvist is the best Devils fw prospect which can play on all three position and has a great upside either. And Vatanen is a very good and consistent top 4 two-way d-man which can play on both sides. And I still give to Toronto a 1st, a 3rd and a conditional 2nd and you still think that's a "light agressive" offer? I thought to offer Hall, but Vatanen would be more useful to Toronto than Hall. Anyway, I'll swap the 3rd to another 1st. To me, that's the best reasonable offer possible.
13 jui à 9h28
#7
Démarrer sujet
Let's go Pens!
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 1,565
Mentions "j'aime": 257
Quoting: mondo
devils don't really have any assets which would want the leafs to consider trading marner.


Not the best. But I think they have enough.
13 jui à 9h31
#8
Démarrer sujet
Let's go Pens!
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 1,565
Mentions "j'aime": 257
Quoting: glc_0908
well we do, just not willing to part with them lol


As a fan you don't wanna see your team part with the necessary assets to get Marner? If I were a Devils fan, I would...
13 jui à 9h38
#9
Démarrer sujet
Let's go Pens!
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 1,565
Mentions "j'aime": 257
Quoting: tomato43
If Marner was going to accept a deal anywhere close to that he would just do it with the Maple Leafs. A 28 year old oft injured soon to be UFA Vatanen isn't enticing in the least no matter how much is retained. Bratt isn't anything special, and while Boqvist is an intriguing prospect these spare parts dont come close to the value of Marner. Good youngish player(s) with term and a blue chip prospect in addition to the draft picks will be needed to get Toronto to even think of a trade.


Man, Toronto don't have cap space to keep Marner. They would have to trade role players to sign with him and they'd have 3 players getting more than 10M, 3 players getting more than 33M. 4 players getting 40M when you put Nylander's salary. That's almost 50% of the ENTIRE salary cap. That's INSANE in a cap league!!! Sign Marner will put Toronto in a cap hell situation, like Chicago was recently. I agree that Toronto can get better assets than Devils can offer. But no matter which assets they'll get, they MUST trade Marner to build a competitive team for the next seasons.
13 jui à 12h39
#10
Rejoint: fév 2018
Messages: 331
Mentions "j'aime": 87
Quoting: ChytilMania
If you’re unwilling to part with the necessary assets to aquore him, then you cannot trade for Marner.


i know thats my point

Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
As a fan you don't wanna see your team part with the necessary assets to get Marner? If I were a Devils fan, I would...


the assets for marner are the hischier hughes assets, not the retained vatanen assets

If toronto wants 2 firsts mcleoud rooney and bratt sure, but the trade in this post is more of a return and its still not close (per the responses)..The only point i was making, is one kid said we dont have assets, we do, but theyll be devils for a long time, they arent on the block for an awesome young winger looking for 12MM and a short term deal to cash in after the tv deal...I love marner, I'd give 4 firsts before Id trade hischier or hughes
ChytilMania a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 14h29
#11
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 74
Mentions "j'aime": 17
If that's what it costs to get him just place an offer sheet. You'd be better of.
Willian_Cardoso a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 17h47
#12
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 97
Mentions "j'aime": 25
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
Bratt is just 20 and has a great upside to be a top 6 winger. Boqvist is the best Devils fw prospect which can play on all three position and has a great upside either. And Vatanen is a very good and consistent top 4 two-way d-man which can play on both sides. And I still give to Toronto a 1st, a 3rd and a conditional 2nd and you still think that's a "light agressive" offer? I thought to offer Hall, but Vatanen would be more useful to Toronto than Hall. Anyway, I'll swap the 3rd to another 1st. To me, that's the best reasonable offer possible.


Lol Bratt is a fine player, but will not play in the leafs top 6, even with a Marner trade, and Vatanen is a UFA that is overated. Leafs got a better RD and forward in the Kadri trade. We are talking about Marner here. Boqvist is a good piece, but not the upside leafs would look for. Truth is any Marner trade talk starts with Hughes, which of course NJ says no. And then it moves to a reasonably discussion that starts with Hischier +, which I imagine NJ does not want as well. Truth is they just are not good trading partners- they would not want to give up anything that the leafs would desire in a Marner trade. And all of this just does not matter because Marner would never take 10.5 at full term. And if he did want to, leafs would have done it yesterday. In the end, only way devils get Marner is with an "aggressive" offer sheet. Which he most likely does not sign because he wants to stay in Toronto.
glc_0908 a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 17h56
#13
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 97
Mentions "j'aime": 25
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
Man, Toronto don't have cap space to keep Marner. They would have to trade role players to sign with him and they'd have 3 players getting more than 10M, 3 players getting more than 33M. 4 players getting 40M when you put Nylander's salary. That's almost 50% of the ENTIRE salary cap. That's INSANE in a cap league!!! Sign Marner will put Toronto in a cap hell situation, like Chicago was recently. I agree that Toronto can get better assets than Devils can offer. But no matter which assets they'll get, they MUST trade Marner to build a competitive team for the next seasons.


Leafs could fit Marner at 11 million this year. Going forward, if they wanted to keep Marner and improve the team on D, yes they would have to trade role players. And as much as they would not ideally like to do it, they would do. Because they are role players. That is essentially the whole idea about them. You draft and develop to replace them, and you win with elite talent. And yeah, congrats, you have just described how wining in a cap league works. And this point by you does well to explain your initial trade offer that was awful - where you offered 2 role players, and a maybe player.
13 jui à 18h44
#14
Démarrer sujet
Let's go Pens!
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 1,565
Mentions "j'aime": 257
Quoting: TooMalevolent
Lol Bratt is a fine player, but will not play in the leafs top 6, even with a Marner trade, and Vatanen is a UFA that is overated. Leafs got a better RD and forward in the Kadri trade. We are talking about Marner here. Boqvist is a good piece, but not the upside leafs would look for. Truth is any Marner trade talk starts with Hughes, which of course NJ says no. And then it moves to a reasonably discussion that starts with Hischier +, which I imagine NJ does not want as well. Truth is they just are not good trading partners- they would not want to give up anything that the leafs would desire in a Marner trade. And all of this just does not matter because Marner would never take 10.5 at full term. And if he did want to, leafs would have done it yesterday. In the end, only way devils get Marner is with an "aggressive" offer sheet. Which he most likely does not sign because he wants to stay in Toronto.


Bratt has POTENTIAL to be a top 6. I didn't say he already is. Not even in NJ. If I were Devils GM I wouldn' trade Hischier and trade Hughes would be insane. Hughes is considered the best prospect since McDavid. Even better than Matthews and Eichel. We'll see if he'll confirm the expectations...as for Marner, if I were him I'd wanna stay as well. But the fact is he can't. As I said, sign him will put Toronto in a cap hell situation for many many years. They must trade him or let him go for a offer sheet.
13 jui à 18h45
#15
Démarrer sujet
Let's go Pens!
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 1,565
Mentions "j'aime": 257
Quoting: richu12
If that's what it costs to get him just place an offer sheet. You'd be better of.


It's something to be considered...
glc_0908 a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 18h46
#16
Démarrer sujet
Let's go Pens!
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 1,565
Mentions "j'aime": 257
Quoting: glc_0908
i know thats my point



the assets for marner are the hischier hughes assets, not the retained vatanen assets

If toronto wants 2 firsts mcleoud rooney and bratt sure, but the trade in this post is more of a return and its still not close (per the responses)..The only point i was making, is one kid said we dont have assets, we do, but theyll be devils for a long time, they arent on the block for an awesome young winger looking for 12MM and a short term deal to cash in after the tv deal...I love marner, I'd give 4 firsts before Id trade hischier or hughes


Hughes is completely off the table. He's considered the best prospect since McDavid. Devils would be stupid to do that. But they won't. I wouldn't trade Hischier as well.
glc_0908 a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 18h52
#17
Démarrer sujet
Let's go Pens!
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 1,565
Mentions "j'aime": 257
Quoting: TooMalevolent
Lol Bratt is a fine player, but will not play in the leafs top 6, even with a Marner trade, and Vatanen is a UFA that is overated. Leafs got a better RD and forward in the Kadri trade. We are talking about Marner here. Boqvist is a good piece, but not the upside leafs would look for. Truth is any Marner trade talk starts with Hughes, which of course NJ says no. And then it moves to a reasonably discussion that starts with Hischier +, which I imagine NJ does not want as well. Truth is they just are not good trading partners- they would not want to give up anything that the leafs would desire in a Marner trade. And all of this just does not matter because Marner would never take 10.5 at full term. And if he did want to, leafs would have done it yesterday. In the end, only way devils get Marner is with an "aggressive" offer sheet. Which he most likely does not sign because he wants to stay in Toronto.


As for Vatanen, he's better than Ceci. And Ceci will be their 2nd pair D.
13 jui à 19h51
#18
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 97
Mentions "j'aime": 25
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
Bratt has POTENTIAL to be a top 6. I didn't say he already is. Not even in NJ. If I were Devils GM I wouldn' trade Hischier and trade Hughes would be insane. Hughes is considered the best prospect since McDavid. Even better than Matthews and Eichel. We'll see if he'll confirm the expectations...as for Marner, if I were him I'd wanna stay as well. But the fact is he can't. As I said, sign him will put Toronto in a cap hell situation for many many years. They must trade him or let him go for a offer sheet.


No it would not put them in cap hell. Cap hell is when you pay middle level guys top prices. Chi messed up by giving big contracts to players like Bickle and Seabrook. Again, leafs would build everything around their top 4 forwards. And yes, if they have cap problems and need to put some money towards d, you supplement by trading the middle guys .
13 jui à 19h53
#19
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 97
Mentions "j'aime": 25
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
As for Vatanen, he's better than Ceci. And Ceci will be their 2nd pair D.


Ceci is in their 2nd pair for a few months until Dermott is back. Yeah, would the Leafs do Ceci for Vatanen? Of course. But that is not your offer. Your offer is a low tier top four dman (UFA) as a piece in a trade for a 90 point winger
glc_0908 a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 19h56
#20
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 97
Mentions "j'aime": 25
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
Hughes is completely off the table. He's considered the best prospect since McDavid. Devils would be stupid to do that. But they won't. I wouldn't trade Hischier as well.


Yes, that is why you don't have a trade. The two players leafs would want does not make sense for NJ to trade. Anything else you offer Toronto would not want.
glc_0908 a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 20h00
#21
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 97
Mentions "j'aime": 25
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
It's something to be considered...


He would never sign it. His ask is shorter term and more dollars (11/5yrs). You put his signing at 10.5 for full 8 years. If he ever signed that (again, he never would), leafs brass would be dancing. You clearly do not really have an understanding of the Marner discussions- which is totally fine, you are a NJ fan. But with that considered, you should not be arguing this awful position.
glc_0908 a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 20h07
#22
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 97
Mentions "j'aime": 25
Marner to NJ only works at one level, and that is an outrageous offer sheet (think 12.5million). Any offer sheet with term Marner does not sign (these new RFAs are taking less term- see Mathews, Ago, Laine ask, etc.) Therefore, you would have to do a high number, such as 11 at 5yrs for the leafs to consider not matching, and then give up the four 1st picks. And even then, Marner might not want to sign an OS he knows the leafs will not match, because his main goal is still to stay in Toronto. It is a leverage play, like Aho did.
glc_0908 a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 20h08
#23
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 746
Mentions "j'aime": 181
Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
Bratt has POTENTIAL to be a top 6. I didn't say he already is. Not even in NJ. If I were Devils GM I wouldn' trade Hischier and trade Hughes would be insane. Hughes is considered the best prospect since McDavid. Even better than Matthews and Eichel. We'll see if he'll confirm the expectations...as for Marner, if I were him I'd wanna stay as well. But the fact is he can't. As I said, sign him will put Toronto in a cap hell situation for many many years. They must trade him or let him go for a offer sheet.


And Bratt might not even make it to the Top 6, same with Boqvist. They aren't a cornerstone piece in even a package to get Marner.
glc_0908 a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 20h10
#24
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 97
Mentions "j'aime": 25
Truthfully, I really love what NJD are doing, really look forward to seeing them next year. They should be doing everything to keep Hall and make the playoffs (which go hand in hand apparently). I just don't see the Marner fit
glc_0908 a aimé ceci.
13 jui à 21h36
#25
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1
Mentions "j'aime": 0
Quoting: MacerV
And Bratt might not even make it to the Top 6, same with Boqvist. They aren't a cornerstone piece in even a package to get Marner.


Everyone here is seriously undervaluing Bratt. Last season he was on pace for 53 points, the previous season he was on a 38 point pace. Obviously pace cant be taken as gospel but thats more points that everyone on the leafs except for Rielly, Matthews, Tavares, and Marner. He is easily a top 6 player.

Bratt, Vatanen, Boqvist, 2 firsts, and a possible second is a ludicrous overpay for Marner who wants a short deal and more money than he is worth. What leafs fans never take into consideration when they try to evaluate trades is cap space and its infuriating.
 
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