Forums/Armchair-GM

Question for Wild and NYR Fans

Créé par: rja
Date de création initiale: jui 9, 2019
Publié: Jul 9 at 11:12 pm
Équipe: 2019-20 Wild du Minnesota
Explications
I saw someone ask this question and I was wondering what others thought. I would believe most Wild fans rejecting and most NYR accepting, but curious to hear other opinions.
Transactions
MIN
  1. Kreider, Chris
Détails additionnels:
The person asking the question did not specify whether kreider receives an extension upon trade (and let me know if that changes your opinion on the matter).
NYR
  1. Kaprizov, Kirill [Liste de réserve]
  2. 2020 1e round pick (MIN)
Détails additionnels:
The 2020 is lottery protected and would become a 2021 1st
Rachats de contrats
  • Tyler Ennis: 1 216 667 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
2021
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
2022
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
1981 500 000 $74 778 589 $0 $0 $6 721 411 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
MIN
Parise, Zach
7 538 461 $
AG
NMC
UFA - 6
MIN
Koivu, Mikko
5 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 1
MIN
Zuccarello, Mats
6 000 000 $
AD
NMC
UFA - 5
MIN
Zucker, Jason
5 500 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 4
MIN
Rask, Victor
4 000 000 $
C
UFA - 3
MIN
Brown, J.T.
687 500 $
AD
UFA - 1
MIN
Foligno, Marcus
2 875 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
MIN
Staal, Eric
3 250 000 $
C
UFA - 2
MIN
Hartman, Ryan
1 900 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
NYR
Kreider, Chris
4 625 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
MIN
Suter, Ryan
7 538 461 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 6
MIN
Dumba, Matt
6 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 4
MIN
Dubnyk, Devan
4 333 333 $
G
NTC
UFA - 2
MIN
Brodin, Jonas
4 166 667 $
DG
UFA - 2
MIN
Spurgeon, Jared
5 187 500 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 1
MIN
Stalock, Alex
785 000 $
G
UFA - 3
MIN
Seeler, Nick
725 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
MIN
Pateryn, Greg
2 250 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
MIN
Hunt, Brad
700 000 $
DD
UFA - 2

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9 jui à 23h14
#1
Rejoint: jun 2017
Messages: 4,171
Mentions "j'aime": 2,239
Yeah, hell no. Not even with an extension. Kaprizov should be (and hopefully is) untouchable. The guy led the KHL in goal scoring as a 22 year old
rja, futurehofer, Wildwinswhen and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
10 jui à 0h20
#2
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 1,877
Mentions "j'aime": 248
with an extension is pretty fair value.

but Boldy + 2020 1st + works too
10 jui à 0h23
#3
Rejoint: sep 2016
Messages: 324
Mentions "j'aime": 39
Quoting: TanSor
Yeah, hell no. Not even with an extension. Kaprizov should be (and hopefully is) untouchable. The guy led the KHL in goal scoring as a 22 year old


Didn't you get the memo? All Russians players will report to the Rangers.
MNBassman et TanSor a aimé ceci.
10 jui à 0h33
#4
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 557
Mentions "j'aime": 131
Would NYR fans like this?

Jason Zucker for Kakko+1st rounder
futurehofer, MNBassman, TanSor and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
10 jui à 2h11
#5
Minnesota Wild
Rejoint: oct 2016
Messages: 307
Mentions "j'aime": 31
I agree with TanSor. This is almost worthy of number blocking. Kreider is not what this team needs and trading Kaprizov AND a 1st would blow a hole in our already thin prospect pool. Outside of Kap and Boldy, we don't have any real high end prospects in the system. We've waited this long for him to come over, trading him less than a year from him signing with us would be a massive mistake.
MNBassman, Wildwinswhen et TanSor a aimé ceci.
10 jui à 7h56
#6
MNBassman
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 3,164
Mentions "j'aime": 857
(No comment)
Wildwinswhen, TanSor et CowSaysMoo a aimé ceci.
10 jui à 8h32
#7
Rejoint: mar 2019
Messages: 678
Mentions "j'aime": 420
Do people even bother to look at teams when proposing trades? Even if we pretend it's fair value (it's not), the Wild absolutely don't need another LW.
Wildwinswhen, MNBassman, TanSor and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
10 jui à 9h26
#8
MNBassman
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 3,164
Mentions "j'aime": 857
Quoting: Sagecoll
with an extension is pretty fair value.

but Boldy + 2020 1st + works too



(No comment)
TanSor et CowSaysMoo a aimé ceci.
10 jui à 13h36
#9
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 557
Mentions "j'aime": 131
Quoting: Sagecoll
with an extension is pretty fair value.

but Boldy + 2020 1st + works too


Again, to which I'd say, how about Zucker for Kakko + 2020 1st?
TanSor et MNBassman a aimé ceci.
10 jui à 17h39
#10
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 1,877
Mentions "j'aime": 248
Quoting: NHLfan10506
Again, to which I'd say, how about Zucker for Kakko + 2020 1st?


Just going on precedent:

Pacioretty gets you Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd
Turris gets you Girard, Kamenev and a 2nd.

Screen-Shot-2019-07-10-at-4-35-46-PM Screen-Shot-2019-07-10-at-4-19-31-PM

How much more does Kreider get you? I'd say a solid bit more. How does Boldy compare to Girard / Suzuki? How does Tatar/Kamenev + 2nd compare to a 1st? Now consider Kreider gets you considerably MORE than that....I don't think it's ridiculous.
10 jui à 21h28
#11
Rejoint: mar 2019
Messages: 678
Mentions "j'aime": 420
Quoting: Sagecoll
Just going on precedent:

Pacioretty gets you Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd
Turris gets you Girard, Kamenev and a 2nd.

Screen-Shot-2019-07-10-at-4-35-46-PM Screen-Shot-2019-07-10-at-4-19-31-PM

How much more does Kreider get you? I'd say a solid bit more. How does Boldy compare to Girard / Suzuki? How does Tatar/Kamenev + 2nd compare to a 1st? Now consider Kreider gets you considerably MORE than that....I don't think it's ridiculous.


Why would Kreider get you considerably more? Nothing about him says he's worth more than a guy like Paccioretty.
10 jui à 21h33
#12
Rejoint: mar 2019
Messages: 678
Mentions "j'aime": 420
Quoting: Sagecoll
Just going on precedent:

Pacioretty gets you Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd
Turris gets you Girard, Kamenev and a 2nd.

Screen-Shot-2019-07-10-at-4-35-46-PM Screen-Shot-2019-07-10-at-4-19-31-PM

How much more does Kreider get you? I'd say a solid bit more. How does Boldy compare to Girard / Suzuki? How does Tatar/Kamenev + 2nd compare to a 1st? Now consider Kreider gets you considerably MORE than that....I don't think it's ridiculous.


The key part in the precedent you're also missing is need. Vegas needed Paccioretty. Nashville needed a 2C to play behind Johanson. The Wild don't need a LW, so Kreider's value to them is much less than you'd think.
MNBassman et futurehofer a aimé ceci.
11 jui à 4h30
#13
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 1,877
Mentions "j'aime": 248
Quoting: JayTea
The key part in the precedent you're also missing is need. Vegas needed Paccioretty. Nashville needed a 2C to play behind Johanson. The Wild don't need a LW, so Kreider's value to them is much less than you'd think.


I totally understand that. I don't think the argument is the need for the Wild to have Kreider. Any trade would honestly be a reflection of Fenton's whims than anything. But it's more of a way to understand Kreider's objective value rather than Kreider's subjective value to the Wild.
11 jui à 14h34
#14
Osiecki death stare
Rejoint: jun 2017
Messages: 9
Mentions "j'aime": 2
Quoting: Sagecoll
Just going on precedent:

Pacioretty gets you Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd
Turris gets you Girard, Kamenev and a 2nd.

Screen-Shot-2019-07-10-at-4-35-46-PM Screen-Shot-2019-07-10-at-4-19-31-PM

How much more does Kreider get you? I'd say a solid bit more. How does Boldy compare to Girard / Suzuki? How does Tatar/Kamenev + 2nd compare to a 1st? Now consider Kreider gets you considerably MORE than that....I don't think it's ridiculous.

It’s not ridiculous?

Kravstov+NYR 1st 2020 for Zucker. Zucker>Kreider and Zucker is signed long term. If you say no, you’re a hypocrite.
futurehofer a aimé ceci.
12 jui à 2h11
#15
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 1,877
Mentions "j'aime": 248
Quoting: Digitalbooya06
It’s not ridiculous?

Kravstov+NYR 1st 2020 for Zucker. Zucker>Kreider and Zucker is signed long term. If you say no, you’re a hypocrite.


I don't think Zucker > Kreider at all....

Over the last 3 seasons Kreider has smoked Zucker defensively And that's with Lindy Ruff running the d who might be the league's worst...

Screen-Shot-2019-07-12-at-1-05-43-AM


In terms of recency, it's not very close

Screen-Shot-2019-07-12-at-1-07-50-AM

But what probably makes the situation most ridiculous is trying to equate Kravtsov to Boldy lol.

I do agree that Zucker is heavily undervalued though. Mainly by your own GM who was close to pulling the trigger on a 1st + Frolik for him, which is absolutely ridiculous.
13 jui à 15h53
#16
Osiecki death stare
Rejoint: jun 2017
Messages: 9
Mentions "j'aime": 2
Quoting: Sagecoll
I don't think Zucker > Kreider at all....

Over the last 3 seasons Kreider has smoked Zucker defensively And that's with Lindy Ruff running the d who might be the league's worst...

Screen-Shot-2019-07-12-at-1-05-43-AM


In terms of recency, it's not very close

Screen-Shot-2019-07-12-at-1-07-50-AM

But what probably makes the situation most ridiculous is trying to equate Kravtsov to Boldy lol.

I do agree that Zucker is heavily undervalued though. Mainly by your own GM who was close to pulling the trigger on a 1st + Frolik for him, which is absolutely ridiculous.


Zucker has more value than Kreider as a 1 year rental.

A recent #9 overall pick vs a #12 overall pick from this last year. Do more research on Boldy, you obviously don't know much about about him. Kravstov and Boldy would be a great debate for #2 on the Wild's prospect list behind Kaprizov.
13 jui à 18h05
#17
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 1,877
Mentions "j'aime": 248
Quoting: Digitalbooya06
Zucker has more value than Kreider as a 1 year rental.

A recent #9 overall pick vs a #12 overall pick from this last year. Do more research on Boldy, you obviously don't know much about about him. Kravstov and Boldy would be a great debate for #2 on the Wild's prospect list behind Kaprizov.



lol

though most of these Kreider deals are presuming an extension.

but the fun part is when you get to stuff like NHLe

Kaprizov : 0.75
Kravtosv: 0.75
Boldy: 0.07
14 jui à 14h05
#18
Osiecki death stare
Rejoint: jun 2017
Messages: 9
Mentions "j'aime": 2
Quoting: Sagecoll
lol

though most of these Kreider deals are presuming an extension.

but the fun part is when you get to stuff like NHLe

Kaprizov : 0.75
Kravtosv: 0.75
Boldy: 0.07

Forgive me, you're missing the point here. Kreider does NOT have an extension. Until he does there's no point in assuming his value has an extension attached to it. Let alone that even with an extension he wouldn't be worth Kaprizov/Boldy+2020 1st.

NHLe lol... I didn't even know that was a thing. The fact that you are using it as anything other than saying that the KHL>USHL (duh) is amusing though. Kravtsov has a ways to go to reach Kaprizov's level, albeit he does have a few years to catch up.

Using: http://nhlecalculator.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-nhle-calculator-updated-24052017.html

Per 82 games NHLe calculations are pretty fun, I agree:
Kaprizov 54 points
Boldy 28 points
Kravtsov 26 points

Even if you use draft+1 seasons:
Kaprizov 31 points
Kravtsov 26 points
(Boldy doesn't have a draft+1 season to use, if you use his draft season it's still higher than Kravtsov)
 
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