Forums/Armchair-GM

Trading Up at the Draft with Edmonton

Créé par: CD282
Date de création initiale: jun 17, 2019
Publié: Jun 17 at 2:09 pm
Équipe: 2019-20 Sénateurs d'Ottawa
Explications
I have seen several proposals for trading back in Oilers forums and wanted to explore the idea here. Would Ottawa be willing to do something like this?

Here are similar trades, although none involve a top-10 pick, which carries great value on draft day.
Transactions
OTT
  1. 2019 1e round pick (EDM)
2019: #8
EDM
  1. 2019 1e round pick (CBJ)
  2. 2019 2e round pick (OTT)
  3. 2020 1e round pick (SJS)
2019: #19 + 32
2020: 25 (approx)
Rachats de contrats
  • Dion Phaneuf: 729 167 $
  • Alexandre Burrows: 0 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2019
EDM
FLA
PIT
OTT
OTT
OTT
2020
OTT
OTT
CBJ
DAL
OTT
CBJ
OTT
OTT
SJS
STL
OTT
2021
OTT
OTT
CBJ
SJS
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
1883 000 000 $48 485 000 $0 $3 710 000 $34 515 000 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
OTT
MacArthur, Clarke
4 650 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 1
OTT
Pageau, Jean-Gabriel
3 100 000 $
C
UFA - 1
OTT
Veronneau, Max
925 000 $
AD
RFA - 1
OTT
Boedker, Mikkel
4 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
OTT
Tierney, Chris
2 937 500 $
C
RFA - 1
OTT
Ryan, Bobby
7 250 000 $
AD, AG
NMC NTC
UFA - 3
OTT
Smith, Zack
3 250 000 $
AG, C
NTC
UFA - 2
OTT
Gáborík, Marián
4 875 000 $
AD
UFA - 2
OTT
Duclair, Anthony
1 650 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
OTT
Tkachuk, Brady
925 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
OTT
Borowiecki, Mark
1 200 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
OTT
DeMelo, Dylan
900 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
OTT
Anderson, Craig
4 750 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
OTT
Chabot, Thomas
863 333 $
DG
UFA - 1
OTT
Jaros, Christian
755 000 $
DD
RFA - 1
OTT
Nilsson, Anders
2 600 000 $
G
UFA - 2
OTT
Harpur, Ben
725 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
OTT
Condon, Mike
2 400 000 $
G
UFA - 1

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17 jun à 14h15
#1
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 486
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I think EDM would rather use 8th OA to get an established player as opposed to 3 lower 1st round picks that wouldn't be ready for at least 2-4 years most likely.
17 jun à 14h16
#2
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 4,802
Mentions "j'aime": 934
For some reason the previous trades won't post in the Team Explanation, they are here:


2018
25 traded for 29 + 76
22 traded for 26 + 48

2017
26 traded for 29 + 70

2016
26 traded for 28 + 87
18 + 79 for 22 + 36
11 for 12 + 80

2015
29 for 34 + 68
28 for 33 + 72
24 for 29 + 61

2014
28 for 35 + 57

2013
18 for 20 + 58

2012
14 for 21 + 42

2011
22 for 30 + 39
24 for 35 + 48

2010
30 for 35 + 58
17 jun à 14h17
#3
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Quoting: villenash
I think EDM would rather use 8th OA to get an established player as opposed to 3 lower 1st round picks that wouldn't be ready for at least 2-4 years most likely.


I agree. As I stated at the top, I have seen this scenario suggested elsewhere and wanted to see what Ottawa fans thought about it.
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17 jun à 14h19
#4
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 347
Mentions "j'aime": 77
Not enough. The closest comparable I could find is in 2008 the 7th overall pick was traded for 9 + 40. They picked up a 2nd for moving down TWO spots. You are asking EDM to take essentially 2 seconds to move down TEN spots. Thats ridiculous/

I know it sucks, but there is no way of getting in the 8th overall pick without moving a A prospect.
CD282 a aimé ceci.
17 jun à 14h21
#5
EclipzeEDM
Rejoint: fév 2019
Messages: 481
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Unless some substantial cap is going back no way Edmonton does this.
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17 jun à 14h24
#6
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Quoting: Eclipze
Unless some substantial cap is going back no way Edmonton does this.


Do you have something in mind?
17 jun à 14h53
#7
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Quoting: sammy_daws1997
Not enough. The closest comparable I could find is in 2008 the 7th overall pick was traded for 9 + 40. They picked up a 2nd for moving down TWO spots. You are asking EDM to take essentially 2 seconds to move down TEN spots. Thats ridiculous/

I know it sucks, but there is no way of getting in the 8th overall pick without moving a A prospect.


Great comment. Which Sens prospect would make up the value in your opinion? Would a guy like Batherson bridge the gap?
17 jun à 15h30
#8
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 108
Mentions "j'aime": 29
Ok, I follow both the Oil and Sens very closely and would like to chime in.
I'll start off by saying we don't know the value of the #8 overall pick until we see how things shake up on draft day.
I'll also say that I do think the Sens should see if they can move up in this years draft. But I can assure you that the trade as mentioned above does not get done (both sides say no).
First, the Sens perspective:
A) Am I reading your trade offer correctly? Sens would offer the #19 and #32 (so same as a late 1st round) picks, AND the 2020 year's SJ 1st?????
So two 1sts and a VERY high 2nd which is essentially a low 1st.
Ridiculous.
2020 is set to be a very good draft year, NO way Sens trade away the 1st from SJ without knowing what its worth. Could be 31st pick, could be top 15. We don't know yet.
B) The #1 rule of drafting is: the more bullets the better. Why would an organization trade 3 attempts to getting a prospect for only 1?
C) That being said, replace the 2020 SJS pick with a prospect, and sure, this gets done.

Oilers:
Oilers need help now. McD + Drai prime years are age 23 to 27 and the organization can't risk shaving off multiple of those years waiting for prospects drafted in 2019 to develop.
Oilers shouldnt be stockpiling picks right now, they should be trading picks and prospects for better prospects that are able to come make a difference in the next couple seasons.
I really think that at the 8th overall spot, the oil could get a fairly good player and they should use the pick and keep it. Between #5 to #12, there is alot of parity/ no consensus therefore you are likely getting a good prospect. Keep that pick.
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17 jun à 15h34
#9
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 101
Mentions "j'aime": 34
Quoting: villenash
I think EDM would rather use 8th OA to get an established player as opposed to 3 lower 1st round picks that wouldn't be ready for at least 2-4 years most likely.


If I was Edmonton I would be scared of the draft at this point.
17 jun à 15h47
#10
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Quoting: YvanF
Ok, I follow both the Oil and Sens very closely and would like to chime in.
I'll start off by saying we don't know the value of the #8 overall pick until we see how things shake up on draft day.
I'll also say that I do think the Sens should see if they can move up in this years draft. But I can assure you that the trade as mentioned above does not get done (both sides say no).
First, the Sens perspective:
A) Am I reading your trade offer correctly? Sens would offer the #19 and #32 (so same as a late 1st round) picks, AND the 2020 year's SJ 1st?????
So two 1sts and a VERY high 2nd which is essentially a low 1st.
Ridiculous.
2020 is set to be a very good draft year, NO way Sens trade away the 1st from SJ without knowing what its worth. Could be 31st pick, could be top 15. We don't know yet.
B) The #1 rule of drafting is: the more bullets the better. Why would an organization trade 3 attempts to getting a prospect for only 1?
C) That being said, replace the 2020 SJS pick with a prospect, and sure, this gets done.

Oilers:
Oilers need help now. McD + Drai prime years are age 23 to 27 and the organization can't risk shaving off multiple of those years waiting for prospects drafted in 2019 to develop.
Oilers shouldnt be stockpiling picks right now, they should be trading picks and prospects for better prospects that are able to come make a difference in the next couple seasons.
I really think that at the 8th overall spot, the oil could get a fairly good player and they should use the pick and keep it. Between #5 to #12, there is alot of parity/ no consensus therefore you are likely getting a good prospect. Keep that pick.


I think they keep it too, and it should be noted that nobody trades high picks in the weeks before the draft. Any such trade would happen on the draft floor, when Edmonton knows who is on the board at #8 and can then make an educated decision.

In your opinion, would Ottawa trade 19 + 32 + Batherson for 8? Should Edmonton accept such an offer?
17 jun à 15h56
#11
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Quoting: Buckoleboy
If I was Edmonton I would be scared of the draft at this point.


Why? They've been drafting fairly well since 2015.
17 jun à 16h01
#12
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 101
Mentions "j'aime": 34
Quoting: CD282
Why? They've been drafting fairly well since 2015.


Yeah, and they've been drafting well for other teams since before that.
17 jun à 16h02
#13
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 108
Mentions "j'aime": 29
Quoting: CD282

In your opinion, would Ottawa trade 19 + 32 + Batherson for 8? Should Edmonton accept such an offer?


No. Batherson is on their untoucheable list. Watch him play. He wasn't drafted very high, nor did he have big numbers in the Q. But he is a great prospect. His play translates very well to the pro level. He dominated the AHL (62 points in 59 games), then played 20 games in the NHL on a TERRIBLE team and had a PPG stat of close to .50. Which is 3rd line production as a first year pro.
He is a very good prospect and OTT will NOT be looking to get rid of him.
To be honest, and I don't want this to happen, but replace Batherson with Formenton and I think that is a much more realistic trade. Formenton has wheels. Insane wheels. Its his greatest attribute. Very skilled as well but just needs his hands to follow his feet (meaning producing at high speed). He needs another year in the AHL to maybe translate his game to the pro level/speed.
Watching the Oilers and Sens ALOT, I keep thinking, MAN, if Formenton was on McD's wing. WOWZERSS!!

Also, if the Sens are trading up, it won't be their 32nd pick.
Itll be their 19th overall + Florida 2nd (44th overall) + prospect
17 jun à 16h08
#14
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Quoting: YvanF
No. Batherson is on their untoucheable list. Watch him play. He wasn't drafted very high, nor did he have big numbers in the Q. But he is a great prospect. His play translates very well to the pro level. He dominated the AHL (62 points in 59 games), then played 20 games in the NHL on a TERRIBLE team and had a PPG stat of close to .50. Which is 3rd line production as a first year pro.
He is a very good prospect and OTT will NOT be looking to get rid of him.
To be honest, and I don't want this to happen, but replace Batherson with Formenton and I think that is a much more realistic trade. Formenton has wheels. Insane wheels. Its his greatest attribute. Very skilled as well but just needs his hands to follow his feet (meaning producing at high speed). He needs another year in the AHL to maybe translate his game to the pro level/speed.
Watching the Oilers and Sens ALOT, I keep thinking, MAN, if Formenton was on McD's wing. WOWZERSS!!


Batherson produced in the AHL at about the same pace as Tyler Benson, so that's the Oilers comparable, not an A+ prospect but a guy that projects as a middle-6 forward who ins NHL ready. Formenton reminds me of Ryan McLeod somewhat - would you think they're on a similar level?
17 jun à 16h10
#15
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Quoting: YvanF
Also, if the Sens are trading up, it won't be their 32nd pick.
Itll be their 19th overall + Florida 2nd (44th overall) + prospect


Every post you make the offer gets weaker and weaker. At this point, 19 + 44 + Formenton is not enough to pry the 8 pick out of Edmonton.
17 jun à 16h12
#16
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Quoting: Buckoleboy
Yeah, and they've been drafting well for other teams since before that.


So? What does that have to do with 2019?
17 jun à 16h18
#17
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 108
Mentions "j'aime": 29
Quoting: CD282
Batherson produced in the AHL at about the same pace as Tyler Benson, so that's the Oilers comparable, not an A+ prospect but a guy that projects as a middle-6 forward who ins NHL ready. Formenton reminds me of Ryan McLeod somewhat - would you think they're on a similar level?


Although I understand your comparison between Benson and Batherson, I must respectfully disagree.
You are comparing both players in a vacuum (last year production) in one league. Benson played all his games in one league (didn't get yoyo'd up and down various teams on various lines with various teammates). Benson played with a much better team (teammates). More importantly, the Condors had an excellent D squad which enabled Benson to play more aggressive and offensively. The B-Sens had a BRUTAL defense last year and were often struck by injuries to key players.
I really like Benson and agree, he will be an efficient middle six player in the future.
But his skill and hockey sense are not at the same level, which are the primary tools used to evaluate ceiling potentials. In other words, Batherson has 1st line ceiling, Benson does not.
17 jun à 16h22
#18
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 108
Mentions "j'aime": 29
Quoting: CD282
Every post you make the offer gets weaker and weaker. At this point, 19 + 44 + Formenton is not enough to pry the 8 pick out of Edmonton.


Lol. Fair enough. I guess the more I look at it, and the more I think about it, the less I'm willing to sell the farm for 1 pick.
I do really think the Sens should move up. I think if you send your #19 + #44, you offer it and see who takes you up on it.

You are correct in that what I offered doesn't net you the 8th overall. But perhaps its gets you #14-15-16-17. Move up a couple spots to get you the guy you want.
17 jun à 16h32
#19
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 108
Mentions "j'aime": 29
If you're
Quoting: CD282
Formenton reminds me of Ryan McLeod somewhat - would you think they're on a similar level?


Yes. Both have middle six upside. Both have wheels.
But both play very different games too. Formenton is a prototypical speedy sniper winger. While Mcleod plays a much better two-way game and will be a good 3C right out of the box with potential for 2C.

Good reads:
https://dobberprospects.com/player/alex-formenton/
https://dobberprospects.com/player/ryan-mcleod/
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17 jun à 17h07
#20
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Quoting: YvanF
Although I understand your comparison between Benson and Batherson, I must respectfully disagree.
You are comparing both players in a vacuum (last year production) in one league. Benson played all his games in one league (didn't get yoyo'd up and down various teams on various lines with various teammates). Benson played with a much better team (teammates). More importantly, the Condors had an excellent D squad which enabled Benson to play more aggressive and offensively. The B-Sens had a BRUTAL defense last year and were often struck by injuries to key players.
I really like Benson and agree, he will be an efficient middle six player in the future.
But his skill and hockey sense are not at the same level, which are the primary tools used to evaluate ceiling potentials. In other words, Batherson has 1st line ceiling, Benson does not.


Speaking of getting yoyo'd up and down various teams on various lines with various teammates - I just realised that Batherson is 11 days older than Jesse Puljujarvi.
17 jun à 18h08
#21
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 108
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Quoting: CD282
Speaking of getting yoyo'd up and down various teams on various lines with various teammates - I just realised that Batherson is 11 days older than Jesse Puljujarvi.


Yep. Batherson was passed over in the draft in 2016. Then Sens picked him up as an over-ager in 2017.

But Sens have a long history of picking diamonds in the rough (Mark Stone (6th), Hoffman (5th), Dzingel (7th)).

But I agree that JP should have been left in the ahl and the direct repercussions of the yoyo'ing are being seen today on his development / confidence / post ELC contract negotiations.
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18 jun à 8h13
#22
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 347
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Quoting: CD282
Great comment. Which Sens prospect would make up the value in your opinion? Would a guy like Batherson bridge the gap?


Batherson is exactly who I was thinking actually
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18 jun à 8h48
#23
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Quoting: sammy_daws1997
Batherson is exactly who I was thinking actually


I would have to seriously consider that deal. Depends what's still available at #8, I guess.
18 jun à 11h20
#24
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 108
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Quoting: sammy_daws1997
Batherson is exactly who I was thinking actually


You're never going to get Batherson. You are not assessing players correctly if you are asking for Batherson as incentive for moving up in the draft (specially for the Sens) as Batherson is the Sens equivalent of Bouchard.
The oilers may trade one of their esteemed LD. But due to their lack of depth at RD as well as the sheer promise that Bouchard represents, he aint going nowhere. The same could be said about Batherson.
Also, why would you want another centreman. The Oil need a good 3C. That is not going to be a rookie/prospect. That slot will be filled by a more veteran player (due to the tougher zone and faceoff assignments). The oil need promising speedy wingers. Formenton IS that. Abramov would be another perfect candidate (but I feel he is too much like Yamamoto and wouldn't be recommended).

That being said, as mentioned earlier, Sens are bursting at the seams with Centre's and if you are seeking a C (which I don't understand since you've already got 97, 29 and 93), you'd have better luck grabbing another one of their centre prospect, such as Norris.
18 jun à 15h52
#25
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 347
Mentions "j'aime": 77
Quoting: YvanF
You're never going to get Batherson. You are not assessing players correctly if you are asking for Batherson as incentive for moving up in the draft (specially for the Sens) as Batherson is the Sens equivalent of Bouchard.
The oilers may trade one of their esteemed LD. But due to their lack of depth at RD as well as the sheer promise that Bouchard represents, he aint going nowhere. The same could be said about Batherson.
Also, why would you want another centreman. The Oil need a good 3C. That is not going to be a rookie/prospect. That slot will be filled by a more veteran player (due to the tougher zone and faceoff assignments). The oil need promising speedy wingers. Formenton IS that. Abramov would be another perfect candidate (but I feel he is too much like Yamamoto and wouldn't be recommended).

That being said, as mentioned earlier, Sens are bursting at the seams with Centre's and if you are seeking a C (which I don't understand since you've already got 97, 29 and 93), you'd have better luck grabbing another one of their centre prospect, such as Norris.


Im not saying the sens would do it. Im saying the oilers would want that for the 8th overall pick.
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