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New York Islanders signed Brock Nelson (6 Years / $6,000,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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23 mai à 17h44
#26
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 1,140
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Quoting: Barathrum_Obama
it may not be a huge overpayment, but if you give out 6x6 (the term here is notable!), you really shouldn't cite "chemistry" as an argument. it's a lot of cap space for a middle 6 center who hit 50 points once.

if the term was 1-2 years less, one could argue this was an "okay" deal.


The term is noticable why? He's going to be 33 which is at the end of his prime. You are acting like it's until he's 40 years old.
23 mai à 18h10
#27
Rejoint: déc 2017
Messages: 406
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Quoting: pharrow
Wow this is one divided signing. He's a consistent 20 goal scorer and he's basically hit his prime right now. It's hard to judge the market on that. You can look at a player like Nylander who is about the same.
I think the real issue here is the length. If this goes bad, it's probably going to be in the tail end of it.


"Nylander is about the same" Yeah, he's only 4-ish years younger, only about 0.17ppg better despite missing most of last season and it being a bad year due to a holdout and has significantly better underlying numbers, both in offense and defense.

But yeah that's a fair comparable tbh.
Random2152 a aimé ceci.
23 mai à 18h30
#28
I'm a Skatman
Rejoint: mai 2016
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Quoting: HabsForEver
The term is noticable why? He's going to be 33 which is at the end of his prime. You are acting like it's until he's 40 years old.


the end of the prime for most players is more around 29-30. at 31, many UFA signings that were made prior (while the player was in his prime) look like an afterthought and Ladd/Eriksson immediately come to mind.
23 mai à 19h29
#29
Raggy
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 65
Mentions "j'aime": 5
It's fine, a slight over payment in term and $, 5 yr $5.5 AAV was what I was kind of expecting so not too far off. Brock has never been a hometown discount type of guy.

I don't buy the people saying it's a great deal because he would have gotten 7 mil plus on the open market though.
Rideordie a aimé ceci.
23 mai à 19h36
#30
44 Foundation
Rejoint: nov 2017
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The contract is a bit long for my taste but the AAV is fine. What kills me is the NTC and MNTC stuck in there making it impossible for the Isle to trade him to a bad team with lots of cap space if things go south
23 mai à 20h14
#31
Rejoint: jun 2018
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Quoting: kaljakori
"Nylander is about the same" Yeah, he's only 4-ish years younger, only about 0.17ppg better despite missing most of last season and it being a bad year due to a holdout and has significantly better underlying numbers, both in offense and defense.

But yeah that's a fair comparable tbh.


Nylander is a 20 goal scorer 60 point player. If we were judging him on last year he wouldn't have even been considered that. He's been in the NHL for 3 years now, it is what it is.
Nylander plays with a lot more talent so I chalk up some assists to that. But honestly I put a lot less value in those assists than I do the goals. Which he has been consistently lower 20s.
Needless to say it is what it is. Yes clearly he's younger but I also stated this will look bad on the back end. Nylander also signed as a RFA this was a UFA so clearly he should get paid a bit more for that.
Nylander also got 1 million more a year.

I think it's more than a fair comparison.
23 mai à 20h44
#32
The Great 58 Letang
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 1,653
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A lil steep IMO, so is Lee gonna get $10m per?
23 mai à 20h50
#33
Rejoint: déc 2017
Messages: 793
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Quoting: Rooney
I bet lots of people won't like this singing, but I think it's great. He's been a consistent player who can put the puck in the back of the net. Fair term and AAV. Good singing.


Yup. People get way too caught up in the offensive numbers. Also, Lou is a notoriously tough negotiator. I'm sure he feels very confident w/ Nelson long term.
Rooney a aimé ceci.
23 mai à 21h04
#34
Rejoint: déc 2017
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Quoting: kaljakori
"Nylander is about the same" Yeah, he's only 4-ish years younger, only about 0.17ppg better despite missing most of last season and it being a bad year due to a holdout and has significantly better underlying numbers, both in offense and defense.

But yeah that's a fair comparable tbh.


Nylander is nowhere close defensively, so let's not get carried away. He also plays w/ far more talented players. I've been very critical of Dubas for the way Nylander was handled. Lou would've played hardball and let him sit out a year. Dubad was taken advantage of. The pressure in TOR was too much for Dubas and he was exploited. Nylander was never worth $7M AAV. Anyone who watched him standing around afraid of physical contact in the playoffs would've seen this.
23 mai à 23h36
#35
Rejoint: nov 2017
Messages: 160
Mentions "j'aime": 19
Its not the AAV that bugs me that much. Thought he would get 5.5 mill. Its the years.. This contract is never going to be a steal, but it has potential to be a real bad deal in a few years.
24 mai à 6h35
#36
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 3,931
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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid
clearly that means he's Satan


Pretty sure Satan retired in 2014.
24 mai à 6h51
#37
The worst AGMs
Rejoint: oct 2017
Messages: 503
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Quoting: Ville__Koho
Remember everyone Pasta makes 6.666mil


but pasta has on of the best contracts in the league
24 mai à 7h38
#38
Owentheguy
Rejoint: nov 2018
Messages: 108
Mentions "j'aime": 12
Good signing but the isles probably could have got him for at the most 1 mil less.
24 mai à 10h11
#39
Komarov>Tavares
Rejoint: oct 2016
Messages: 2,075
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Quoting: Owentheguy
Good signing but the isles probably could have got him for at the most 1 mil less.


If they could’ve gotten him for one mil less, they would’ve
MoreOfAnIslesGuy a aimé ceci.
24 mai à 12h52
#40
Sports and Tacos
Rejoint: avr 2018
Messages: 1,473
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Quoting: Rooney
I bet lots of people won't like this singing, but I think it's great. He's been a consistent player who can put the puck in the back of the net. Fair term and AAV. Good singing.


Define consistent? I think it's a pretty steep contract.

The last 3 season point-wise he's been pretty much 45-35-55 and he has really only been a + players this season.

That said, I don't really watch the NYI. So maybe he brings a lot more to the game that doesn't show on the score sheet... i.e. his defensive awareness - something Lou and trotz must absolutely love
Rooney a aimé ceci.
24 mai à 13h14
#41
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 7
Mentions "j'aime": 8
Yikes, the canes signed TT for 5x5,4. Compared to that this seems like a huge overpay
24 mai à 13h30
#42
Rejoint: déc 2017
Messages: 406
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Quoting: Brian2016
Nylander is nowhere close defensively, so let's not get carried away. He also plays w/ far more talented players. I've been very critical of Dubas for the way Nylander was handled. Lou would've played hardball and let him sit out a year. Dubad was taken advantage of. The pressure in TOR was too much for Dubas and he was exploited. Nylander was never worth $7M AAV. Anyone who watched him standing around afraid of physical contact in the playoffs would've seen this.


You're literally writing your opinion like the game was still in 2012.
Random2152 a aimé ceci.
24 mai à 14h11
#43
Rejoint: aoû 2017
Messages: 1,031
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Modifié 24 mai à 14h18
Quoting: pharrow
Wow this is one divided signing. He's a consistent 20 goal scorer and he's basically hit his prime right now. It's hard to judge the market on that.
You can look at a player like Nylander who is about the same.
I think the real issue here is the length. If this goes bad, it's probably going to be in the tail end of it.


Brock Nelson averaged 44 points over 2 seasons before signing (26 + 27 years old)
Will Nylander averaged 61 points over 2 seasons before signing (20 + 21 years old)

Brock Nelson had 26 career points / 14 career goals when he was Nylander's signing age.
Will Nylander had 143 career points / 50 career goals when he signed his contract.

I don't think he's "about the same" as Nylander ....

People seem to ignore the fact that Lou Lamoriello signed Patrick Marleau and Nikita Zaitsev.
The Leafs aren't in cap trouble because Dubas overpaid Matthews and Nylander by $600,000.
The Leafs are in cap trouble because Lamoriello overpaid Marleau and Zaitsev by $6,000,000.
Brian2016, Random2152 et kaljakori a aimé ceci.
24 mai à 14h39
#44
Rejoint: déc 2017
Messages: 793
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Quoting: drewjenks
Brock Nelson averaged 44 points over 2 seasons before signing (26 + 27 years old)
Will Nylander averaged 61 points over 2 seasons before signing (20 + 21 years old)

Brock Nelson had 26 career points / 14 career goals when he was Nylander's signing age.
Will Nylander had 143 career points / 50 career goals when he signed his contract.

I don't think he's "about the same" as Nylander ....

People seem to ignore the fact that Lou Lamoriello signed Patrick Marleau and Nikita Zaitsev.
The Leafs aren't in cap trouble because Dubas overpaid Matthews and Nylander by $600,000.
The Leafs are in cap trouble because Lamoriello overpaid Marleau and Zaitsev by $6,000,000.


Comparing Nylander to Nelson is very problematic. They're very different players. Lou's mistake was signing Marleau for 3 years instead of 2. He should've known that they'd be in this cap crunch when he made that deal, but he was in "win-now mode." It was very short-sighted as both Matthews and Marner would become RFA's at the same time Marleau would be entering his final season. Big mistake there. A rookie mistake.
drewjenks et Random2152 a aimé ceci.
24 mai à 15h44
#45
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 4,867
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Quoting: drewjenks
Brock Nelson averaged 44 points over 2 seasons before signing (26 + 27 years old)
Will Nylander averaged 61 points over 2 seasons before signing (20 + 21 years old)

Brock Nelson had 26 career points / 14 career goals when he was Nylander's signing age.
Will Nylander had 143 career points / 50 career goals when he signed his contract.

I don't think he's "about the same" as Nylander ....

People seem to ignore the fact that Lou Lamoriello signed Patrick Marleau and Nikita Zaitsev.
The Leafs aren't in cap trouble because Dubas overpaid Matthews and Nylander by $600,000.
The Leafs are in cap trouble because Lamoriello overpaid Marleau and Zaitsev by $6,000,000.


I have already commented on this and you seem to ignore that part.
He's a UFA, Nylander was a RFA, Nylander also got 1 million per year more.
Those are big factors in this discussion. Fact is, nothing in Nylanders career so far screams he will be a consistent player over 20 some goals. The fact that he is surrounded with a lot more talent helps with those assist numbers.
So as I was saying. It's a decent comparable when you are talking about 20 goal scoring players. Which is exactly what Nylander has been so far.
24 mai à 15h59
#46
J.L.
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 117
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Quoting: DSZ
For a guy that has had one 50 point season in is his career that's a bit much


It's not like it was seasons ago.
24 mai à 16h34
#47
Rejoint: aoû 2017
Messages: 1,031
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Modifié 25 mai à 21h11
Quoting: pharrow
I have already commented on this and you seem to ignore that part.
He's a UFA, Nylander was a RFA, Nylander also got 1 million per year more.
Those are big factors in this discussion. Fact is, nothing in Nylanders career so far screams he will be a consistent player over 20 some goals. The fact that he is surrounded with a lot more talent helps with those assist numbers.
So as I was saying. It's a decent comparable when you are talking about 20 goal scoring players. Which is exactly what Nylander has been so far.


"He's a UFA, Nylander was a RFA"

Have you not noticed that RFA's have been getting as much (or more) than comparable UFA's for the past two years?

RFA's are getting higher cap-hits (on long-term contracts) to account for potential improvement (Draisaitl, Eichel, Matthews, etc)
UFA's are getting lower cap-hits (on long-term contracts) to account for their potential decline (Ellis, McDonagh, Wheeler, etc)

The two highest cap-hits in the league were given to 21 year old RFA's .... the UFA argument doesn't really apply anymore.

"Nylander also got 1 million per year more"

Nylander's cap-hit is 15% higher than Nelsons.
He produced 40% more offense than Nelson (in the 2 years prior to their signings).
He did this in his rookie + sophomore seasons while being six years younger than Nelson.

"Fact is, nothing in Nylanders career so far screams he will be a consistent player over 20 some goals"

Nylanders 1st NHL season = 22 goals / 61 points
Nylanders 2nd NHL season = 20 goals / 61 points

Then he signed his contract .... that about as consistent as a 20 to 21 year old player could possible be LMAO.
Nelson was in the AHL at 20 and a 4th line player at 21 ... then he improved drastically over the next 6 years.
Yet somehow you think Nylander's career peaked when he was a rookie?

"The fact that he is surrounded with a lot more talent helps with those assist numbers"

Nylander has played with Brown, Marleau and Hyman as much as he's played with Matthews.
Nelson also gets more ice-time than Nylander ... and I think he was on one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL last year?

"It's a decent comparable when you are talking about 20 goal scoring players. Which is exactly what Nylander has been so far".

Lets just ignore the fact that Nylander is a much better playmaker ... which is his primary offensive skill set.
Lets also ignore the fact that Nelson is not a good playmaker .... so goal scoring is his primary offensive skill set.

Even if we ignore both of the facts ... this is still a horrible comparison LMAO.
If you want to compare players you have to compare them at the same point in their career.

When they were both at the exact same point in their career as Nylander's signing ... they were exactly this:

Nelson = 14 goal and 26 point scorer (proven for 1 season)
Nylander = 21 goal and 61 point scorer (proven over 2 seasons)

That is exactly what they had both proven at the same age.

We now know that Nelsons ceiling is as a 20 goal / 50 point player ....
And that is probably Nylander's absolute floor ...
And he has the potential to double those numbers during his contract.
Random2152 et kaljakori a aimé ceci.
24 mai à 16h42
#48
Rejoint: aoû 2017
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Quoting: Brian2016
Comparing Nylander to Nelson is very problematic. They're very different players. Lou's mistake was signing Marleau for 3 years instead of 2. He should've known that they'd be in this cap crunch when he made that deal, but he was in "win-now mode." It was very short-sighted as both Matthews and Marner would become RFA's at the same time Marleau would be entering his final season. Big mistake there. A rookie mistake.


Yup ... It actually would have been so much better if Lou just gave him 2 years with a $9,400,000 cap-hit ... better for Marleau too.
Brian2016 a aimé ceci.
24 mai à 16h51
#49
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 4,867
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Quoting: drewjenks
"He's a UFA, Nylander was a RFA"

Have you not noticed that RFA's have been getting as much (or more) than comparable UFA's for the past two years?

RFA's are getting higher cap-hits (on long-term contracts) to account for potential improvement (Draisaitl, Eichel, Matthews, etc)
UFA's are getting lower cap-hits (on long-term contracts) to account for their potential decline (Ellis, McDonagh, Wheeler, etc)

The two highest cap-hits in the league were given to 21 year old RFA's .... the UFA argument doesn't really apply anymore.

"Nylander also got 1 million per year more"

Nylander's cap-hit is 15% higher than Nelsons.
He produced 40% more offense than Nelson (in the 2 years prior to their signings).
He did this in his rookie + sophomore seasons while being six years younger than Nelson.

"Fact is, nothing in Nylanders career so far screams he will be a consistent player over 20 some goals"

Nylanders 1st NHL season = 22 goals / 61 points
Nylanders 2nd NHL season = 20 goals / 61 points

Then he signed his contract .... that about as consistent as a 20 to 21 year old player could possible be LMAO.
Nelson was in the AHL at 20 and a 4th line player at 21 ... then he improved drastically over the next 6 years.
Yet somehow you think Nylander's career peaked when he was a rookie?

"The fact that he is surrounded with a lot more talent helps with those assist numbers"

Nylander has played with Brown, Marleau and Hyman as much as he's played with Matthews.
Nelson also gets more ice-time than Nylander ... and I think he was on the highest scoring team in the NHL last year?

"It's a decent comparable when you are talking about 20 goal scoring players. Which is exactly what Nylander has been so far".

Lets just ignore the fact that Nylander is a much better playmaker ... which is his primary offensive skill set.
Lets also ignore the fact that Nelson is not a good playmaker .... so goal scoring is his primary offensive skill set.

Even if we ignore both of the facts ... this is still a horrible comparison LMAO.
If you want to compare players you have to compare them at the same point in their career.

When they were both at the exact same point in their career as Nylander's signing ... they were exactly this:

Nelson = 14 goal and 26 point scorer (proven for 1 season)
Nylander = 21 goal and 61 point scorer (proven over 2 seasons)

That is exactly what they had both proven at the same age.

We now know that Nelsons ceiling is as a 20 goal / 50 point player ....
And that is probably Nylander's absolute floor ...
And he has the potential to double those numbers during his contract.


OVER 20 some goals. Man basic reading comprehension. In other words, he's show nothing to assume he'd be a regular 30 goal scorer.
The contracts you are looking at small examples in a bubble of much larger pool. Most of those contracts came out of two places. Edmonton and Toronto. Period. You can look at the league where RFA have been paid a lot less. Guentzel, Kucherov, Pasta....I can go on and on. So lets not look at things in a bubble. In general, RFA's have taken less money than UFA. That's pretty much a fact and stats bare that out.

Also, your whole 15% 40% whatever is meaningless. The difference you are pointing out is in assists. His goal production is virtually the same. I'm sorry you over value assists, I don't. Especially on a team where he is surrounded with talent. Making that mistake is how people think Marner is worth 11+ million. While he's a 20 goal scorer. That's a hard pill to swallow for me. I don't think he's worth that. Not saying the idiot in toronto won't give it to him, he's shown to be totally incompetent, but I would think most people would pause before handing a guy with 20 some goals and like 60+ assists an 11 million contract. Because in general, the assists yeah they are nice and all, but they just don't weight what you think they do.

if you think the islanders are the "highest scoring team in the league" last year, you should just delete your account and stop posting.
Honestly I don't have time with people who just make things up off the top of their had that have no sense of reality.

Have a good day, you are just flat out wrong.
24 mai à 17h16
#50
rangersandislesfan
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 24,438
Mentions "j'aime": 2,046
Good that we got him signed. Probably a bit too much.
jamatulli a aimé ceci.
 
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