Forums/Armchair-GM

Trading up to 1 if the Wild win 2

Créé par: TanSor
Date de création initiale: avr 9, 2019
Publié: Apr 9 at 1:53 pm
Équipe: 2019-20 Wild du Minnesota
Explications
Kakko will be a fantastic player, but I think he plays wing at the NHL level and the last thing the Wild need is another left shot wing. If we end up winning the 2nd pick, it would be in our best interest to trade up and get Hughes since we need a gamebreaking center. Colorado is a candidate since they already have MacKinnon and Jost. Hughes would be great for them, but adding the best winger in the draft AND a former 30 goal scorer is a huge win in my eyes. Other possible candidates could be Buffalo, Edmonton, NYR, or New Jersey.
Transactions
MIN
  1. 2019 1e round pick (OTT)
Not necessarily Colorado, but the team that ends up winning the 1st overall pick.
COL
  1. Zucker, Jason
  2. 2019 1e round pick (MIN)
Détails additionnels:
2nd overall pick.
Rachats de contrats
  • Tyler Ennis: 1 216 667 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2019
OTT
MIN
MIN
BOS
WSH
MIN
VGK
MIN
2020
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
WPG
2021
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
MIN
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
1579 500 000 $56 978 589 $0 $925 000 $22 521 411 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
MIN
Parise, Zach
7 538 461 $
AG
NMC
UFA - 6
MIN
Koivu, Mikko
5 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 1
MIN
Brown, J.T.
687 500 $
AD
UFA - 1
MIN
Foligno, Marcus
2 875 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
MIN
Rask, Victor
4 000 000 $
C
UFA - 3
MIN
Staal, Eric
3 250 000 $
C
UFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
MIN
Suter, Ryan
7 538 461 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 6
MIN
Dumba, Matt
6 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 4
MIN
Dubnyk, Devan
4 333 333 $
G
NTC
UFA - 2
MIN
Brodin, Jonas
4 166 667 $
DG
UFA - 2
MIN
Spurgeon, Jared
5 187 500 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 1
MIN
Robson, Mat
925 000 $
G
RFA - 1
MIN
Seeler, Nick
725 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
MIN
Pateryn, Greg
2 250 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
MIN
Stalock, Alex
785 000 $
G
UFA - 3

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9 avr à 15h32
#1
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 210
Mentions "j'aime": 122
If We get the No. 2 overall I would be Jumping and doing cartwheels on the street and I would love for us to Hughes he would change this franchise
9 avr à 15h36
#2
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Quoting: Wild1205
If We get the No. 2 overall I would be Jumping and doing cartwheels on the street and I would love for us to Hughes he would change this franchise


Agreed, winning any of the 3 lottery picks would be massive. Even drafting Kakko would be huge, but man I'd do everything in my power to trade up and get Hughes. I do think there is a gap between Hughes and Kakko (I view Kakko as the more NHL ready player now, but Hughes having the higher ceiling), but I don't think that gap is very large and a guy like Zucker should be enough to get a team to trade back.
Wild1205 a aimé ceci.
9 avr à 15h47
#3
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 15,100
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I think you'd be crazy to trade up just to lose Zucker for nothing. Both players are elite.....keep whichever one isn't taken and trade Zucker for more picks and prospects. I guarantee whichever one of Kakko or Hughes you get at 2, plus the return from Zucker is worth more than either 1 of those guys alone.
9 avr à 15h57
#4
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Quoting: F50marco
I think you'd be crazy to trade up just to lose Zucker for nothing. Both players are elite.....keep whichever one isn't taken and trade Zucker for more picks and prospects. I guarantee whichever one of Kakko or Hughes you get at 2, plus the return from Zucker is worth more than either 1 of those guys alone.


To me, it's worth it. Zucker will be gone this offseason anyways. We need a center a million times more than we need another left shot wing, no matter how skilled.
Wild1205 a aimé ceci.
9 avr à 16h02
#5
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 15,100
Mentions "j'aime": 3,461
Quoting: TanSor
To me, it's worth it. Zucker will be gone this offseason anyways. We need a center a million times more than we need another left shot wing, no matter how skilled.


A lot of people say Kakko probably can play center... I think he's smart enough to do it as well strong enough for it. Maybe even more so than Hughues who will be in tough at 18 years old and only 5'10 160Lbs...
9 avr à 16h07
#6
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Quoting: F50marco
A lot of people say Kakko probably can play center... I think he's smart enough to do it as well strong enough for it. Maybe even more so than Hughues who will be in tough at 18 years old and only 5'10 160Lbs...


Maybe, but whether Kakko actually will play center or not is a huge question mark. Kakko's game revolves around attacking the net. He's constantly barraging the goaltender trying to either snipe close quarters or bang in a greasy goal. Hughes just fits our needs a ton more, we have guys that attack the net already (Parise, Greenway, Fiala, Eriksson Ek), we need an elite playmaker that plays on the perimeter and can get guys the puck or snipe if needed. That's exactly what Hughes does. He may only be 160 lbs but there's no way he doesn't put on muscle at the NHL level, and he's only 18 so it's possible he grows an inch or two. Even if he doesn't grow height-wise, I still think Hughes can thrive as a center in the NHL.
Wild1205 a aimé ceci.
9 avr à 16h09
#7
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 15,100
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Quoting: TanSor
Maybe, but whether Kakko actually will play center or not is a huge question mark. Hughes just fits our needs a ton more, we have guys that attack the net already (Parise, Greenway, Fiala, Eriksson Ek), we need an elite playmaker that plays on the perimeter and can get guys the puck or snipe if needed. That's exactly what Hughes does. He may only be 160 lbs but there's no way he doesn't put on muscle at the NHL level, and he's only 18 so it's possible he grows an inch or two. Even if he doesn't grow height-wise, I still think Hughes can thrive as a center in the NHL.


He's elite don't get me wrong, I just don't think trading up to get him from 2nd and losing a valued asset in the process in conducive asset management. What if Hughes isn't what you think and Kakko is? That is also an option. Regardless its your opinion. Just don't agree with it, thats all.
TanSor a aimé ceci.
9 avr à 16h15
#8
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Quoting: F50marco
He's elite don't get me wrong, I just don't think trading up to get him from 2nd and losing a valued asset in the process in conducive asset management. What if Hughes isn't what you think and Kakko is? That is also an option. Regardless its your opinion. Just don't agree with it, thats all.


That's fair. I do think there is some "bust potential" with Hughes (he might be similar to a Nolan Patrick), and Kakko has certainly proven more playing against grown men. Hughes just fits what the Wild need much better and he also happens to be a center. Kakko is more of the same, even if he would be our most skilled player. I just think it's a bad idea to load your team with the same type of player. For example if you have a 3 forwards trying to crash the net, what happens when your opponent gets the puck? The answer is most likely an odd-man rush. What happens when you have 3 forwards that are all playmakers? The answer is most likely everyone tries to pass to each other and nobody can score. I might be oversimplifying things a bit here, and I don't want to sell Kakko short since I think he will be a great NHL player, but if the Wild end up getting 2 overall I just think it's in our best interest to try and trade up to 1. Trading Zucker to do that may not be the best asset management, but maybe we ask for a 3rd or 4th round pick to balance it out a little.
9 avr à 16h25
#9
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 15,100
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Quoting: TanSor
That's fair. I do think there is some "bust potential" with Hughes (he might be similar to a Nolan Patrick), and Kakko has certainly proven more playing against grown men. Hughes just fits what the Wild need much better and he also happens to be a center. Kakko is more of the same, even if he would be our most skilled player. I just think it's a bad idea to load your team with the same type of player. For example if you have a 3 forwards trying to crash the net, what happens when your opponent gets the puck? The answer is most likely an odd-man rush. What happens when you have 3 forwards that are all playmakers? The answer is most likely everyone tries to pass to each other and nobody can score. I might be oversimplifying things a bit here, and I don't want to sell Kakko short since I think he will be a great NHL player, but if the Wild end up getting 2 overall I just think it's in our best interest to try and trade up to 1. Trading Zucker to do that may not be the best asset management, but maybe we ask for a 3rd or 4th round pick to balance it out a little.


I think you may be selling him short. There is a chance Kakko goes 1st overall in the draft this year. That's on skill alone. Hughes is uber talented also. I think both can be elite, they just play different games. Kakko isn't a crash the net type of guy, he's got major dangle and snipe in him. Hughes is probably the better stick handler though but Kakko has the NHL size. Hughes will never be 200 lbs. He's just not that body type but yeah he'll eventually put on muscle. He's got a Patrick Kane build. Kakko is closer to Barkov when he was 18 years old. Not quite but closer.
9 avr à 16h29
#10
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Quoting: F50marco
I think you may be selling him short. There is a chance Kakko goes 1st overall in the draft this year. That's on skill alone. Hughes is uber talented also. I think both can be elite, they just play different games. Kakko isn't a crash the net type of guy, he's got major dangle and snipe in him. Hughes is probably the better stick handler though but Kakko has the NHL size. Hughes will never be 200 lbs. He's just not that body type but yeah he'll eventually put on muscle. He's got a Patrick Kane build. Kakko is closer to Barkov when he was 18 years old. Not quite but closer.


I said this above, but the gap between Hughes and Kakko isn't large. He very well could be drafted at 1. That's the whole reason I think a team at 2 could move up to 1 if they gave up enough. In years past this hasn't necessarily been the case.

Exactly, the Wild have tons of crash the net guys. Parise is one of the best net-crashers in the league, that's how he scores nearly every one of his goals. That's why I'd trade up and grab Hughes if we won the 2nd overall pick.
9 avr à 16h35
#11
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 15,100
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Quoting: TanSor
I said this above, but the gap between Hughes and Kakko isn't large. He very well could be drafted at 1. That's the whole reason I think a team at 2 could move up to 1 if they gave up enough. In years past this hasn't necessarily been the case.

Exactly, the Wild have tons of crash the net guys. Parise is one of the best net-crashers in the league, that's how he scores nearly every one of his goals. That's why I'd trade up and grab Hughes if we won the 2nd overall pick.


I think you misunderstood, Kakko is a crash and banger the same way Barkov is...........they're not, that's the point. Barkov and Kakko are super talented danglers that can snipe with the best of them. NOT crashers. They may get that part of their game named from time to time but that is only because they are big enough to be able to do it where as Hughes can't crash and bang, even if he wanted to.

Anyways, like I said its your opinion. I just disagree with it. Sticking Out Tongue
9 avr à 16h39
#12
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Quoting: F50marco
I think you misunderstood, Kakko is a crash and banger the same way Barkov is...........they're not, that's the point. Barkov and Kakko are super talented danglers that can snipe with the best of them. NOT crashers. They may get that part of their game named from time to time but that is only because they are big enough to be able to do it where as Hughes can't crash and bang, even if he wanted to.

Anyways, like I said its your opinion. I just disagree with it. Sticking Out Tongue


We can agree to disagree, then!

Here's what Corey Pronman has to say about this:
"Kakko scored a ton of goals this season. More than any 17-year-old ever in Liiga. But I wouldn’t characterize him as a sniper. He’s got a good shot but it’s not how he’ll score in the NHL. Rather he gets so many chances and goals because of how well he attacks the net."

So again, we can agree to disagree, but from what I've seen and read, he's not really a true sniper. He snipes close-quarters, yes, but he isn't a guy like Ovi or Laine that sits on top of the circle and tries to pick corners.
9 avr à 16h47
#13
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: TanSor
We can agree to disagree, then!

Here's what Corey Pronman has to say about this:
"Kakko scored a ton of goals this season. More than any 17-year-old ever in Liiga. But I wouldn’t characterize him as a sniper. He’s got a good shot but it’s not how he’ll score in the NHL. Rather he gets so many chances and goals because of how well he attacks the net."

So again, we can agree to disagree, but from what I've seen and read, he's not really a true sniper. He snipes close-quarters, yes, but he isn't a guy like Ovi or Laine that sits on top of the circle and tries to pick corners.


Yes I think its important to say he isn't a sniper in that sense, but then again who is? Ovechkin is arguably the best goalscorer ever and Laine is an elite sniper but a little one dimensional in other atributes. Attacking the net doesn't mean crashing the net. At least not in my eyes. That quip for Pronman is a little deceiving I think. I think there is more context needed.

Here are some others:


Cam Robinson - Dobber ProspectsFeb. 6th: "Kakko blends size, speed, finishing ability and terrific vision. He doesn’t blow you away with any one skill, but his arsenal of weapons come together to be extremely productive. He’s looking more and more comfortable in the middle of the ice as a 17-year-old in the Liiga. "

Ryan Kennedy - The Hockey NewsFeb. 1st: "Kakko played a meaty role and even elevated the play of older linemate Eeli Tolvanen. Kakko has the ability to play center, but he also showed in Vancouver that his combination of smarts, size and skill works pretty well on the wing anyway."

Steve Kournianos - Sporting NewsJan. 31st: "It's been Kakko's adult-level production as a teenager in the Finnish SM-Liiga that is reinforcing just how special a talent he already is. Big, strong, deceptively quick and blessed with exceptional vision and stickhandling."

Bob McKenzie - TSNJan. 24 th: "Kakko is 6-foot-2-1/4, 194 pounds and has an attractive blend of size, strength, speed and skill. He’s played well against men in Finland’s top league and while he’s been mostly a winger, there are occasions when he’s played centre. He was a driving force for the gold-medal winning Finns."

Hannah Stuart - theScoreJan. 9th: "Though he's still behind Hughes, there's a wide gap between Kakko and the next tier of prospects, and his advanced hockey sense is a big reason. It’s not the only reason, though, as he also brings an appealing combination of composure, high-end puck skills, and physicality."

Will - Scouching.caJan. 7th: "Kakko excels with the puck, just like Jack Hughes does, but his game is (in my opinion) much more suited to jump straight to the NHL today. He has a lot of strength with the puck and is able to work his way off of men twice his age to get to scoring areas. "




If its a dangle through All Star style hoops and cones, I think Hughes is probably the better stickhandler but by no means is Kakko a slouch in the department. If its me advising you, I'd say take whomever you get at 2. You won;t be disappointed. Zucker's value in trade could easily bring in a prospect or pick that could play center also. Doubling your odds of strengthening the middle of the ice for Minny.
9 avr à 17h02
#14
get off my lawn...
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 9,162
Mentions "j'aime": 4,115
Good news... you can trade zucker for other assets because kakko is going first overall IMO.
TanSor a aimé ceci.
9 avr à 17h29
#15
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Quoting: F50marco
Yes I think its important to say he isn't a sniper in that sense, but then again who is? Ovechkin is arguably the best goalscorer ever and Laine is an elite sniper but a little one dimensional in other atributes. Attacking the net doesn't mean crashing the net. At least not in my eyes. That quip for Pronman is a little deceiving I think. I think there is more context needed.

Here are some others:


Cam Robinson - Dobber ProspectsFeb. 6th: "Kakko blends size, speed, finishing ability and terrific vision. He doesn’t blow you away with any one skill, but his arsenal of weapons come together to be extremely productive. He’s looking more and more comfortable in the middle of the ice as a 17-year-old in the Liiga. "

Ryan Kennedy - The Hockey NewsFeb. 1st: "Kakko played a meaty role and even elevated the play of older linemate Eeli Tolvanen. Kakko has the ability to play center, but he also showed in Vancouver that his combination of smarts, size and skill works pretty well on the wing anyway."

Steve Kournianos - Sporting NewsJan. 31st: "It's been Kakko's adult-level production as a teenager in the Finnish SM-Liiga that is reinforcing just how special a talent he already is. Big, strong, deceptively quick and blessed with exceptional vision and stickhandling."

Bob McKenzie - TSNJan. 24 th: "Kakko is 6-foot-2-1/4, 194 pounds and has an attractive blend of size, strength, speed and skill. He’s played well against men in Finland’s top league and while he’s been mostly a winger, there are occasions when he’s played centre. He was a driving force for the gold-medal winning Finns."

Hannah Stuart - theScoreJan. 9th: "Though he's still behind Hughes, there's a wide gap between Kakko and the next tier of prospects, and his advanced hockey sense is a big reason. It’s not the only reason, though, as he also brings an appealing combination of composure, high-end puck skills, and physicality."

Will - Scouching.caJan. 7th: "Kakko excels with the puck, just like Jack Hughes does, but his game is (in my opinion) much more suited to jump straight to the NHL today. He has a lot of strength with the puck and is able to work his way off of men twice his age to get to scoring areas. "




If its a dangle through All Star style hoops and cones, I think Hughes is probably the better stickhandler but by no means is Kakko a slouch in the department. If its me advising you, I'd say take whomever you get at 2. You won;t be disappointed. Zucker's value in trade could easily bring in a prospect or pick that could play center also. Doubling your odds of strengthening the middle of the ice for Minny.


From what I've seen, Pronman is spot on. You're right, Kakko can dangle and he's great at it, but Hughes is better of the two. All I'm saying is that the Wild need a center that can create plays using speed, hands, and passing. That's more Hughes than it is Kakko, so if we ended up getting 2 I'd try to trade up (since it probably won't take a lot considering the two are close in terms of talent).
9 avr à 17h31
#16
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Quoting: Jamiepo
Good news... you can trade zucker for other assets because kakko is going first overall IMO.


I think it largely depends on the team. If Colorado wins (who needs wingers), there's a good chance it could be Kakko. If a team like LA wins (who desperately needs speed), it's probably Hughes. I can see why a team would pick Kakko, he's more NHL ready and has proven a lot more against tougher talent. I can also see why a team would pick Hughes, he will be a game-breaking center and is the best skater of the draft and he could have more potential to be a superstar than Kakko.
 
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