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(MTL / ARI) - Domi for Galchenyuk

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17 jun 2018 à 8 h 16
#51
Habs/Pens fan
Rejoint: oct 2017
Messages: 766
Mentions "j'aime": 221
This is interesting, their both left wingers and both need a change of scenery, their both youngish, however if I was Arizona I'd add a second for Chucky but oh well. Domi is a fast but gritty winger and Chucky is a pure offensive power house with an awful defensive game. I like Domi a lot but more for the Pens and not for the Habs however Chucky was a media scrap goat. I'd say fair trade mainly because Chucky is a tad overrated but if I had to give a winner, it be Arizona. smile
17 jun 2018 à 9 h 42
#52
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 240
Mentions "j'aime": 51
Okay. Let's iron this out. After a few days of chewing on it. I think it's a good trade for the Canadiens.

First. Watch this.. https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/video/the-chat-shaw--galchenyuk/t-277437414/c-56569203?q=shaw+galchenyuk

After seeing this last season. I knew Chucky was gone because he's clearly a narcissist.

Habs save $1.75 over the next few year. And still retain Domi's rights a RFA when it expires.
Domi and Chucky are both wingers that can play center.
Chucky has more flash. But lacks the awareness and dedication to defense.
Domi is a better 200 foot player.
Domi isn't a lazy primadonna.
Domi is probably a better teammate.

I say the western conference eats up Chucky at center and It won't be a case of the Canadiens not using him properly. And he will be finally label as a flawed, overpaid, one trick pony with flashes of promise.
KSIxSKULLS a aimé ceci.
17 jun 2018 à 11 h 22
#53
Sensible Commentary
Rejoint: jui 2016
Messages: 783
Mentions "j'aime": 386
Quoting: mr_z
Okay. Let's iron this out. After a few days of chewing on it. I think it's a good trade for the Canadiens.

First. Watch this.. https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/video/the-chat-shaw--galchenyuk/t-277437414/c-56569203?q=shaw+galchenyuk

After seeing this last season. I knew Chucky was gone because he's clearly a narcissist.

Habs save $1.75 over the next few year. And still retain Domi's rights a RFA when it expires.
Domi and Chucky are both wingers that can play center.
Chucky has more flash. But lacks the awareness and dedication to defense.
Domi is a better 200 foot player.
Domi isn't a lazy primadonna.
Domi is probably a better teammate.

I say the western conference eats up Chucky at center and It won't be a case of the Canadiens not using him properly. And he will be finally label as a flawed, overpaid, one trick pony with flashes of promise.
sigh

so, it's pretty clear that you're a Habs fan who is trying to justify this trade for the Canadiens in some way. but:

1) the "hockey players have to put the team first 24/7, and they can't be all 'me me me'" mentality is old and stale and tired and boring, and that's all I have to say on that;

2) the ad hominem attacks are incredibly unnecessary. you're just some internet schmuck like me and everybody else on the CapFriendly forums. I'm willing to bet you know nothing about Alex Galchenyuk's personality and character, so don't slander it based on no real evidence (that one interview doesn't count as real evidence). this makes you no better than the journalists who spread insidious rumors about Tyler Seguin after he got shipped out of Boston and Phil Kessel after he got shipped out of Toronto. you don't need to swing the needle on this trade so far in the favor of the Canadiens that you resort to defamation.
kaljakori, mhockey91 et drewjenks a aimé ceci.
17 jun 2018 à 11 h 39
#54
Rejoint: déc 2017
Messages: 446
Mentions "j'aime": 240
Quoting: mr_z
Okay. Let's iron this out. After a few days of chewing on it. I think it's a good trade for the Canadiens.

First. Watch this.. https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/video/the-chat-shaw--galchenyuk/t-277437414/c-56569203?q=shaw+galchenyuk

After seeing this last season. I knew Chucky was gone because he's clearly a narcissist.

Habs save $1.75 over the next few year. And still retain Domi's rights a RFA when it expires.
Domi and Chucky are both wingers that can play center.
Chucky has more flash. But lacks the awareness and dedication to defense.
Domi is a better 200 foot player.
Domi isn't a lazy primadonna.
Domi is probably a better teammate.

I say the western conference eats up Chucky at center and It won't be a case of the Canadiens not using him properly. And he will be finally label as a flawed, overpaid, one trick pony with flashes of promise.


TL;DR: Trust the trusted good hockey men™
DragonRaptorHybrid a aimé ceci.
17 jun 2018 à 11 h 41
#55
Sensible Commentary
Rejoint: jui 2016
Messages: 783
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Quoting: kaljakori
TL;DR: Trust the trusted good hockey men™
of which there are only 200; it's an exclusive club, after all, in every sense of the word.
17 jun 2018 à 12 h 01
#56
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 240
Mentions "j'aime": 51
Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid
sigh

so, it's pretty clear that you're a Habs fan who is trying to justify this trade for the Canadiens in some way. but:

1) the "hockey players have to put the team first 24/7, and they can't be all 'me me me'" mentality is old and stale and tired and boring, and that's all I have to say on that;

2) the ad hominem attacks are incredibly unnecessary. you're just some internet schmuck like me and everybody else on the CapFriendly forums. I'm willing to bet you know nothing about Alex Galchenyuk's personality and character, so don't slander it based on no real evidence (that one interview doesn't count as real evidence). this makes you no better than the journalists who spread insidious rumors about Tyler Seguin after he got shipped out of Boston and Phil Kessel after he got shipped out of Toronto. you don't need to swing the needle on this trade so far in the favor of the Canadiens that you resort to defamation.


Im actually a hockey connoisseur not a Habs fanatic. But thank you for your analysis Professor. Problem really is society and the kids they are producing, but that's another rant for grown men with awareness.
17 jun 2018 à 13 h 32
#57
Sensible Commentary
Rejoint: jui 2016
Messages: 783
Mentions "j'aime": 386
Quoting: mr_z
Im actually a hockey connoisseur not a Habs fanatic. But thank you for your analysis Professor. Problem really is society and the kids they are producing, but that's another rant for grown men with awareness.
I don't have my Ph.D. quite yet, but I'll take the compliment, nonetheless.
mr_z a aimé ceci.
17 jun 2018 à 23 h 11
#58
Retired V2 & V3 GM
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 2,070
Mentions "j'aime": 350
I sure liked Domi playing in AZ, he was really good. Can't wait to see impact that Galchenyuk makes though! Good fair deal for both teams.
18 jun 2018 à 10 h 30
#59
Below Market Value
Rejoint: nov 2015
Messages: 1,227
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Quoting: mr_z
Im actually a hockey connoisseur not a Habs fanatic. But thank you for your analysis Professor. Problem really is society and the kids they are producing, but that's another rant for grown men with awareness.


So society is the reason Galchenyuk was a failure in Montreal. Makes sense.
18 jun 2018 à 18 h 18
#60
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 240
Mentions "j'aime": 51
Quoting: DoctorBreakfast
So society is the reason Galchenyuk was a failure in Montreal. Makes sense.


Yep. Great deductive skills! Your logic is unmatched.
18 jun 2018 à 20 h 53
#61
Rejoint: sep 2015
Messages: 46
Mentions "j'aime": 10
Quoting: kaljakori
5 goals against a goalie last year. Five. FIVE. F I V E.


Pleckanek made a career with empty netters !!
18 jun 2018 à 21 h 31
#62
Rejoint: déc 2017
Messages: 103
Mentions "j'aime": 45
Quoting: DoctorBreakfast
So society is the reason Galchenyuk was a failure in Montreal. Makes sense.


Not really. Here is Marc Bergevin's point of view,
We can't consider Galchenyuk a failure since he has established himself as a goalscorer in the nhl. However, he listened too much to his father, who coached him during his junior career with the Sarnia Sting. So much so that he texted him during intermissions (reported by his teamates) and saw him after home games (reported by multiple french canadian journalists). His relashionship with him seemed to blur the line between coaching and parenting. It was too much to handle for the Montreal Canadiens organisation, who wanted him to play a certain style that his father did not approve. Sure, he is the superior talent, but he didn't seem to value the team first policy of the Montreal Canadiens.
On the other hand, Domi has a father who understands what it's like to be an NHL dad, to not interfere with his son's playing career. Plus, he is a good role model, and a good teammate. Shane Doan praised Max as a player and as a teammate very recently.
I understand why he made the deal, unlike the PK Subban trade, where he made a bad one for one deal.
KSIxSKULLS a aimé ceci.
20 jun 2018 à 15 h 40
#63
Rejoint: aoû 2017
Messages: 1,426
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Quoting: Bluetomorrow83
Maybe.. he is making caproom to sign every UFA center on the market.. one should work out right?


The UFA's have a choice too....and none of them would choose to be in that situation....if they don't 'save the franchise' they'll be in hell.
20 jun 2018 à 15 h 52
#64
Rejoint: aoû 2017
Messages: 1,426
Mentions "j'aime": 441
Quoting: seb
Not really. Here is Marc Bergevin's point of view,
We can't consider Galchenyuk a failure since he has established himself as a goalscorer in the nhl. However, he listened too much to his father, who coached him during his junior career with the Sarnia Sting. So much so that he texted him during intermissions (reported by his teamates) and saw him after home games (reported by multiple french canadian journalists). His relashionship with him seemed to blur the line between coaching and parenting. It was too much to handle for the Montreal Canadiens organisation, who wanted him to play a certain style that his father did not approve. Sure, he is the superior talent, but he didn't seem to value the team first policy of the Montreal Canadiens.
On the other hand, Domi has a father who understands what it's like to be an NHL dad, to not interfere with his son's playing career. Plus, he is a good role model, and a good teammate. Shane Doan praised Max as a player and as a teammate very recently.
I understand why he made the deal, unlike the PK Subban trade, where he made a bad one for one deal.


WOW

Shane Doan praised Domi in front of a camera recently ?

Surprising - if there's one thing I know about hockey players - it's that they talk s*** about their teammates on camera at every opportunity....
20 jun 2018 à 17 h 01
#65
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 15,447
Mentions "j'aime": 3,621
I don't know how anyone who watches the Habs with regularity can say this was a bad trade. Its simply a fresh start for two players with similar abilities.

Repeat after me: GALCHENYUK WAS NOT GOING TO BE A CENTER IN MONTREAL.

1) Habs didn't lose a center. They lost a winger. Whatever reason you want to believe as to why it didn't work out with him at center here are all valid. That doesn't change the fact that he wasn't going to play center for the current management so until Molson wises up, we lose nothing in that sense.

2) Whether you agree with it or not, Galchenyuk has not had a favorable ride here in MTL. Despite a few documented off ice incidences that were not hockey related, the current management has mismanaged this player and as result we had a player signed to short term contract that in theory would have no reason to re-up with the Habs based on the current relationship with management. We were losing Chucky at the end of his contract. No one know this for sure but if you were in his shoes, would you stay in this environment? I wouldn't.

3) Galchenyuk had a lower value than he should have. We Habs fans know how good he can be but what good is it if the current management won't use him as intended to hopefully improve his value? What happens if we have another year of Galchenyuk being played on the 4th line to "teach him a lesson? What if we have another off ice issue show its ugly face? We get another Hoffman situation.....Habs cashed in on Galchenyuk's current value because they knew they couldn't/wouldn't get it to where it needed to be to be worth something like a #1 center or what not. I'm not saying I agree with it. Simply pointing this out.

4) With Domi Habs get a Chucky replacement who is cheaper, younger, cost controlled longer, in a better relationship with management, etc etc Yeah Chucky is probably more talented but that extra talent is wasted here in MTL so we would not reap the benefits of it anyway. People keep pointing to the goals production. I like how people point to Domi's lack of goals scoring and the fact that he scored many in the empty net as such a negative. What kind of players players play the last minute of a 1 goal lead? Maybe we should go check which players lead the NHL in empty netters? They are different players. Domi is a better playmaker than Chucky is. The thought process here is that with Domi, they get less goals from him in particular but get more goals from his linemates as a result of him. Habs have plenty of guys who can score if given a good pass. They don't have talented players to create scoring chances. Galchenyuk's goals came mainly from his ability to finish not from his creation of offense. Domi can help with this. He also has character.....yada yada..yada.


This trade isn't a bad trade. I would be the first to **** all over MB if it was. Is it the trade that should of happened? No it shouldn't have. Chucky should have been placed at center and never taken away from it from the beginning. But he has and management has decided to deem him a winger and a winger only. Given this, Habs swapped out a player who didn't fit their mold anymore and had no incentive to want to remain with this team in the long haul. Swapping in a player who could replace Chucky's ability to create offense who also played a game that will be better suited for the style this management wants to play. Once again, I am not a fan of how this entire ordeal came about but of all the **** show trades MB has done, this one is not as bad as some are making it out to be.

Galchenyuk could score 30 goals as a center in Arizona, that's nice but it wouldn't happened here. What we can hope for is Domi to play to his potential within this teams style and structure. If he does, we won't be missing Chucky that much.
20 jun 2018 à 17 h 17
#66
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 27,684
Mentions "j'aime": 6,087
Think Marco said it well, it really doesn't matter what Chucky does with Arizona, it's what if was going to do as a Canadien. And if the answer was he wasn't getting better, z trade was the best option for Montreal.
20 jun 2018 à 20 h 06
#67
Molson beer is meh
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 2,423
Mentions "j'aime": 908
@F50marco

I’m not really upset about the return. Sure i’m disappointed they couldn’t have gotten more and that they sold low (I think everyone can agree on that). I’ll enjoy watching Domi with the Habs, but my issue is that Bergevin yet again trades a valuable asset for something MTL doesn’t need. Habs need goals and centermen, and when you think about it, this trade goes against that. They lose a goal scorer and added a playmaker that plays a gritty game, who’s another LW. Heck, if Domi was even just a right shooting RW I’d be a lot more understanding of this trade, but that’s not the case.

This trade is like if MTL traded Petry for another 2nd pairing right shooting defensemen. Makes no sense other than the team just wanted to get rid of the player, other teams caught on to that fact, and MTL were stuck taking the best deal they could.
20 jun 2018 à 20 h 25
#68
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 15,447
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Quoting: Blazingbat11
@F50marco

I’m not really upset about the return. Sure i’m disappointed they couldn’t have gotten more and that they sold low (I think everyone can agree on that). I’ll enjoy watching Domi with the Habs, but my issue is that Bergevin yet again trades a valuable asset for something MTL doesn’t need. Habs need goals and centermen, and when you think about it, this trade goes against that. They lose a goal scorer and added a playmaker that plays a gritty game, who’s another LW. Heck, if Domi was even just a right shooting RW I’d be a lot more understanding of this trade, but that’s not the case.

This trade is like if MTL traded Petry for another 2nd pairing right shooting defensemen. Makes no sense other than the team just wanted to get rid of the player, other teams caught on to that fact, and MTL were stuck taking the best deal they could.


Except they aren't identical. Chucky's value to MTL is far less than that of Domi's. Yes they are both lefties and both wingers but they play very different games. Have different relationships.

Listen if I were in charge, I would of kept Chucky at center even if he was accidentally scoring on myself for eff sakes.!! But given what we know, MB, MT and now CJ all don't like him at center and will not play him there, the Habs made a smart move to get out from a player they didn't trust anymore to get a player who can replace chucky at a cheaper price, longer term and better relationship.

No one in their right minds was trading a #1 center/ Top 4 LHD for Chucky+. Why would you? Even if you were convinced you could get Chucky to be a solid center, MB played himself into a corner where he couldn't get the "best' value for Chucky so any team trading for him had leverage. Given that, given that he could only get a certain level of value back by his own doing, he got a very good winger who can come in and replace chucky.

I don't agree with the way Chucky has been dealt with in MTL but given we don't have a choice of who gets to make the decision with him, the person currently in charge did well despite seemingly sabotaging himself all these years.
7 déc 2018 à 8 h 20
#69
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 169
Mentions "j'aime": 16
Well for now, looks really good for MTL.
KSIxSKULLS et Hockeylover360 a aimé ceci.
7 déc 2018 à 14 h 18
#70
Habs4Ever
Rejoint: nov 2016
Messages: 4,027
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Quoting: Agalloch
Well for now, looks really good for MTL.


Great to see these "GMs" thinking this deal was awful for Montreal, when in reality, it was the other way around
28 jan à 17 h 17
#71
Habs4Ever
Rejoint: nov 2016
Messages: 4,027
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Quoting: Hedman77
montreal's best natural center is now danault


Or it's Domi...
28 jan à 17 h 17
#72
Habs4Ever
Rejoint: nov 2016
Messages: 4,027
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Quoting: moli92
Imo in terms of value it's an even deal but I'll give the edge to Arizona since I think mtl could have used galchenyuk to fill a team need (centres). The last thing mtl needs is another winger.


Now Galchenyuk is a 3rd line winger and Domi is a 1st line center... who woulda thought?
28 jan à 17 h 18
#73
Habs4Ever
Rejoint: nov 2016
Messages: 4,027
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Quoting: EthanK24
Three years in a row I was certain that a player on the Canadiens wasn’t going to be traded. 3 years in a row they are traded in 1 for 1s. I guess I should stop being surprised. This is a typical Bergevin “character” trade.


Thank god for Bergevin eh? Character trades work.
EthanK24 a aimé ceci.
28 jan à 17 h 19
#74
Habs4Ever
Rejoint: nov 2016
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Quoting: krakowitz
Given the fact that the Habs have seemingly swapped out skill players for guys with more grit (Galchenyuk for Domi, Subban for Weber, Eller for Shaw, Andrighetto for Martinsen, etc) it leaves me to believe that Brady Tkachuk has a very good chance of going at 3


Not one of the brightest things you have said Krak...
28 jan à 17 h 19
#75
Habs4Ever
Rejoint: nov 2016
Messages: 4,027
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Quoting: habs_fan123
how


Now you know.. maybe you should trust me more
habs_fan123 a aimé ceci.
 
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