Forums/NHL Trades

(CHI / ARI) - Duclair, Clendening for Pánik, Dauphin

Who won the trade?
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13 fév 2018 à 15 h 00
#26
HawksFan28
Rejoint: déc 2016
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Quoting: DoctorBreakfast
Oh so you want another Seabrook situation on your hands?


I would like to think Bowman learned from that situation. But I wouldn't be upset if Bowman signed him for 2 or maybe 3 years at 5 per.
13 fév 2018 à 15 h 04
#27
HawksFan28
Rejoint: déc 2016
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Modifié 13 fév 2018 à 15 h 09
Quoting: krakowitz
Was it really the salary cap? Hjalmarsson's cap hit is only slightly higher than Murphy's, and they could've traded a guy like Panik before hand. After they were swept by the Preds, Bowman did say that changes were coming. Seems like he just changed things up just to change things up. The salary situation was almost identical, and the roster became so much worse on paper.


It was the salary cap, the larger contracts on the roster all have NMC's and NTC's - Hammer didn't... Believe me had there been an option Seabrook would have been the first to go.

Also, when you're up against the cap every dollar matters... Remember, Hossa's cap hit counted against the cap when that trade went down.

What Bowman wanted was "long term" cost certainty so he could plan ahead... That's what he said about Murphy.
13 fév 2018 à 15 h 19
#28
HawksFan28
Rejoint: déc 2016
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Quoting: Barathrum_Obama
really not fair everybody has to play by the same rules, isn't it?


You mean punishing success?

Teams that want to keep players they drafted should get cap exemptions.

I've been against the cap since day one because it solves absolutely nothing.

The cap doesn't create parity - it creates thrifty and tricky GM's..... It's really nothing more than an obstacle.

Teams should not be punished for drafting well.... If the league want's to restrict teams from going out there and buying up the best UFA's every year like Detroit or NYR used to every summer then fine... But team should get exemptions on players they drafted until the age of 30.

IMO, the cap has solved nothing.
13 fév 2018 à 15 h 29
#29
I'm a Skatman
Rejoint: mai 2016
Messages: 1,041
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Quoting: HawksFan28
You mean punishing success?

Teams that want to keep players they drafted should get cap exemptions.

I've been against the cap since day one because it solves absolutely nothing.

The cap doesn't create parity - it creates thrifty and tricky GM's..... It's really nothing more than an obstacle.

Teams should not be punished for drafting well.... If the league want's to restrict teams from going out there and buying up the best UFA's every year like Detroit or NYR used to every summer then fine... But team should get exemptions on players they drafted until the age of 30.

IMO, the cap has solved nothing.


give Kane and Toews 8-8,5M contracts like their peers and all those problems just dissolve. management problems and errors, nothing else, nothing to see here. sorry.
13 fév 2018 à 15 h 52
#30
HawksFan28
Rejoint: déc 2016
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Quoting: Barathrum_Obama
give Kane and Toews 8-8,5M contracts like their peers and all those problems just dissolve. management problems and errors, nothing else, nothing to see here. sorry.


In what universe was Kane or Toews going to sign for 8 per?

Lets see what John Tavares signs for this summer on the UFA market....... My guess, 12 per at least.

Kane and Toews contracts will look tame in 2-3 seasons when the cap is at 90 million and guys like Auston Matthews sign for 15 million per...... I'll bet the league will see it's first 20 million dollar player in the cap era within 5 years.

Like I said, the cap solved nothing.

I remember 10 years ago when 6.5 per was reserved for the leagues elites like Crosby, now 6.5 is the standard contract for an average first/second line player or a #3-4 defenseman.

OF course this is eventually going to create a bubble and it's going to be hilarious to see what the league does about it when it happens. Could you image what would happen if the cap went down 20-25%? the bubble would burst, the majority of the league would have to trade players -- the cap structure itself would implode... You know what tho? a situation like that is very possible considering the cap is related to revenue.

Of course that is just another problem with the cap.
13 fév 2018 à 16 h 33
#31
I'm a Skatman
Rejoint: mai 2016
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Quoting: HawksFan28
In what universe was Kane or Toews going to sign for 8 per?

Lets see what John Tavares signs for this summer on the UFA market....... My guess, 12 per at least.

Kane and Toews contracts will look tame in 2-3 seasons when the cap is at 90 million and guys like Auston Matthews sign for 15 million per...... I'll bet the league will see it's first 20 million dollar player in the cap era within 5 years.

Like I said, the cap solved nothing.

I remember 10 years ago when 6.5 per was reserved for the leagues elites like Crosby, now 6.5 is the standard contract for an average first/second line player or a #3-4 defenseman.

OF course this is eventually going to create a bubble and it's going to be hilarious to see what the league does about it when it happens. Could you image what would happen if the cap went down 20-25%? the bubble would burst, the majority of the league would have to trade players -- the cap structure itself would implode... You know what tho? a situation like that is very possible considering the cap is related to revenue.

Of course that is just another problem with the cap.


you can't compare the contracts signed a few years ago with the contracts that will be signed in the next offseason.

Also these two contracts set a precedent for these kind of ridiculous contracts. also there's inflation and the rising cap.
13 fév 2018 à 17 h 05
#32
HawksFan28
Rejoint: déc 2016
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Quoting: Barathrum_Obama
you can't compare the contracts signed a few years ago with the contracts that will be signed in the next offseason.

Also these two contracts set a precedent for these kind of ridiculous contracts. also there's inflation and the rising cap.


Of course I can compare contracts...

I mean, if Toews and Kane hit the UFA market they would have got more than 13 per in a bidding war.... Franchise players RARELY ever hit the free market... Kane and Toews set precedent for nothing ... Wait and see what Tavares gets...

When elite players contracts are up they will be among the top paid players in the league.... Look at McDavid's contract extension, that guys contract will be a bargain in 5 years because by the time his contract is up there will be 20 players making more than he does, and he still will be the best player in the game.

So yea, the idea that Kane & Toews were going to sign for 8.5 per is insanity.... Also, this was their last big $$$$ contract of their careers and by the time their contracts are up when they're 35 they won't even be close to the top paid players in the league.... In 5 years 10.5 will be the going rate for an average first line player...... The going rate right now for a first line player is 6.5-7 per....

Also, don't forget Kane & Toews were major players in 3 Stanley Cups & 5 conference finals appearance over 7 years. That is called success and players get paid for success and results.. The best part is that Tavares will end up getting paid more than Kane & Toews and Tavares has ZERO success...
13 fév 2018 à 18 h 29
#33
Blues GM v4
Rejoint: nov 2016
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Quoting: HawksFan28
Of course I can compare contracts...

I mean, if Toews and Kane hit the UFA market they would have got more than 13 per in a bidding war.... Franchise players RARELY ever hit the free market... Kane and Toews set precedent for nothing ... Wait and see what Tavares gets...

When elite players contracts are up they will be among the top paid players in the league.... Look at McDavid's contract extension, that guys contract will be a bargain in 5 years because by the time his contract is up there will be 20 players making more than he does, and he still will be the best player in the game.

So yea, the idea that Kane & Toews were going to sign for 8.5 per is insanity.... Also, this was their last big $$$$ contract of their careers and by the time their contracts are up when they're 35 they won't even be close to the top paid players in the league.... In 5 years 10.5 will be the going rate for an average first line player...... The going rate right now for a first line player is 6.5-7 per....

Also, don't forget Kane & Toews were major players in 3 Stanley Cups & 5 conference finals appearance over 7 years. That is called success and players get paid for success and results.. The best part is that Tavares will end up getting paid more than Kane & Toews and Tavares has ZERO success...


Please don't say that Toews would make $13M on the open market. Kane wouldn't even get that, and Toews certainly wouldn't. If Toews was a UFA this offseason, I struggle to imagine a scenario in which he makes double-digits.
13 fév 2018 à 19 h 16
#34
HawksFan28
Rejoint: déc 2016
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Quoting: krakowitz
Please don't say that Toews would make $13M on the open market. Kane wouldn't even get that, and Toews certainly wouldn't. If Toews was a UFA this offseason, I struggle to imagine a scenario in which he makes double-digits.


Yes, but we're not talking about right now, when they both signed their contract extensions they were worth what they got. Their salaries prove it and if Bowman didn't think so he would have let both got to UFA to prove it, but he didn't because Bowman knew their would be a bidding war for both- just like their will be a bidding war if Tavares hits the free market.

Sorry but 3 Cups and 5 Western Conference Finals appearances in 7 years is significant..

So maybe you think Toews & Kane aren't worth what they're paid but many GM's would disagree - Bowman certainly did. And like I said, if Bowman thought their asking price was too high he could have just let the free market prove it, but he was unwilling to do that.
25 jun 2018 à 19 h 18
#35
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 111
Mentions "j'aime": 32
Wow Chicago's guys were super biased towards an 8 point player that's now a UFA
7 mar à 12 h 31
#36
Dom6Yotes
Rejoint: aoû 2018
Messages: 175
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Quoting: tadhockey
*Stan Bowman, in a river towards Lottery Ocean"
Stan - "Help! I'm getting swept away!"
*Suddenly, a life preserver appears*
John Chayka - "Of course, here, have mine!"

Duclair isn't a major change. He's probably not much more than a 20-goal, 50-point player in his best years. But that's STILL better than Panik AND he's younger.

I hate when the Coyotes **** up like this, because it makes analytics look stupid. It takes an idiot to accept this deal as the best offer to come.


This aged well
21 mar à 10 h 02
#37
Rejoint: jun 2017
Messages: 373
Mentions "j'aime": 86
Quoting: DSZ
This aged well


Oooof. Like moldy cheese...
DSZ a aimé ceci.
21 mar à 11 h 25
#38
Dom6Yotes
Rejoint: aoû 2018
Messages: 175
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ok
21 mar à 11 h 28
#39
Dom6Yotes
Rejoint: aoû 2018
Messages: 175
Mentions "j'aime": 202
Quoting: tadhockey
Oooof. Like moldy cheese...


Duclair doesn't resign with Chicago and Panik last season was good but this season hes been alright: good penalty killer but that's about it
27 mar à 15 h 40
#40
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 1,565
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Quoting: DSZ
This aged well


Too be fair, Duclair is 5 years younger, on an awful team, and is still putting up similar numbers to Panik.
29 jun à 3 h 26
#41
Rejoint: jun 2017
Messages: 553
Mentions "j'aime": 45
I liked Coyotes here Duclair is a bust anyways smile...
 
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